First N-Scale Layout

redbandit14 Feb 6, 2014

  1. redbandit14

    redbandit14 TrainBoard Member

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    Hi,


    I've been lurking about on various forums for about 3 years and looking at track plans for ever it seems.

    I've been out of MRR since I was a teenager when i had a partially finished Ho 4x8 and have been wanting to do something for quite a while but life kept getting in the way.

    I finally think i have some space and time so I've decided on an N-scale HCD to see if I really have the patience to make this happen.

    My must haves ( In no order) are :
    -Continuous running to keep my daughter enthusiastic.
    -Some switching to keep ME enthusiastic.
    -A tunnel
    -A variety of scenic possibilities
    -One level (For now anyway the space may allow for an extension down the road)
    -some sort of locomotive service area
    -Some sort of industry that will allow for lots of detailing.

    Nice to have:
    -Bridges

    I will be using Atlas Code 80 , I was given a bunch (most brand new :)) a few years ago and have added to that since. I have about 80% of what i need at this point .
    I also have the Brewery,engine facility and Medusa Cement .

    I'm using an 80x36 HCD covered with 2 inch foam at this point .

    So here is my latest plan. Done in scarm.
    Any suggestions appreciated Final_80x36_Hero_ .jpg .
     
  2. Team DTO

    Team DTO TrainBoard Member

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    Looks like you have a well thought out plan. If you have the space available and want to include all your givens, an extension will give you room for a river, bridges and spread things out a little. You'll also be able to run longer trains, which is always cool.:cool:
     
  3. David K. Smith

    David K. Smith TrainBoard Supporter

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    Your plan shows a mix of sectional and flex. Can you provide a (rough) track inventory, so we know what you're working with? Which switches?
     
  4. Dameon

    Dameon TrainBoard Member

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    In your yard on the industrial scene you have few places where the set up of your turnout leads to some "squiggles". You would just move them around a bit to avoid that, making a ladder of siding coming off the one track rather than splitting sidings off each other.

    Something I am curious about.. is why you have a single track splitting from your dual track main and going along the out edge of the board and through the tunnel. I like the effect this has of putting scenery and track between the mainline and layout edge, but it feels unnecessary and a bit wasteful for what it is adding. Instead of having that one track go off, why not eliminate it and shift things a bit but keep the sidings between the main and edge?
     
  5. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Not bad at all. I am wondering about that highway along the front edge. Nothing wrong with having a highway, but it seems like that uses up a bit of space which could be better used by the railroad.
     
  6. David K. Smith

    David K. Smith TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well, you didn't indicate whether or not a double-track mainline was a necessity, but you did remark about having a continuously running train, so I thought, why not utilize the space for a classic twice-around to increase mainline mileage. This plan features a small yard--complete with enginehouse--that runs along one end, which has the effect of increasing the available layout depth. This allows you to create more detailed scenes, such as the large industrial area, and still have room left for scenery with a tunnel and bridges. I think it satisfies all of your wish list items.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. redbandit14

    redbandit14 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for the replies.

    A couple of Notes :

    The pic shows a mix of sectional and flex because i used sectional while creating the scarm file to make sure things would fit but I'll be using 90% flex in the end .
    The tracks are all 2 inches from the edge of the layout to minimize the chance of losing a loco off the layout. And it will have a safety barrier of sorts as well.
    I am working on redrawing it to show flex instead and also more easement .

    The route through the tunnel was put there as way onto a possible staging area .

    Track inventory Inventory .
    -I have 22 Atlas code 80 Flex track
    -3 #6 code 80 turnouts ( 2L 1R I think?) 17 or 18 #4 code 80 turnouts I'm not sure right now how many left or right.
    -At least 30 5in Straight, 30 93/4in Rad curves ( none in this plan) , 20 11in Rad curves and 20 or more 18 Rad Curves.
    -A couple of the Bumper tracks (not really using them)
    - 1 15 deg crossover.


    David your plan looks fantastic. One thing that has bothered me from the start with this plan is it's squareness, yours flows. And it does give me that twice around i was getting from the double mainline . I was looking at a plan that had a similar twice around but on two levels but the the grades were so steep i decided to stick to one level.

    And Looking at my plan i see that it's a little bit of a spaghetti bowl now.

    I'm going to have look at it in scarm and see if i like the results . I'm pretty sure I will .

    Thanks again for the interest. I'll post up some revisions in a day or two.
     
  8. Backshop

    Backshop TrainBoard Member

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    I don't know, I liked the double-track main split in the OP's design. It certainly looks awesome for two trains to diverge or pass close together through a junction like that. I'm sure the poster's little girl would be thrilled by it.
     
  9. redbandit14

    redbandit14 TrainBoard Member

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    So.....
    I've had very little to no time for the RR.
    But I have looked at this plan a gazillion times. At Least.
    And as invested as I was in the plan only a few weeks ago I'm falling out love pretty quick :(
    Speeding up the Un-love process has been finally getting to unpack a few boxes from the move that had books.
    Namely Track Planning for Realistic Operation, 101 Track plans, 9 N-Scale Railroads and a bunch of others.
    After some reading I realized that I’m back to square one.
    I was thinking single level because it would be relatively easy to lay track etc.
    But looking at the plan and lots of others here and everywhere else I can find one I realized I just won’t be happy at all with one level.
    So, I’m string fresh. Sort of. Here are three layouts I’m thinking about now.
    1. Scenic and Relaxed from atlas. Modified for 80x36, Foam on HCD or framework (undecided) not the cookie cutter in the original plan. This is the one I’ve spent the most time on and have a pretty good idea of how it will be detailed. So far it’s my favorite but I’m pretty sure it could use some tweaking. Especially the yards. Scenic&Relaxed80x36_Track .jpg
    2. A loose interpretation of the Gorre & Daphetid – A classic obviously, I’ve done some modifications and plan on a fairly modern era. So far mostly just the track plan but I can see the scenery in my mind. Gorre&Dafied.jpg
    3. A modification of a three lap around suggestion from Track Planning for Realistic Operation, Just a very loose concept now but I do see a great deal of possibilities. TPFRO_Three_Lap.jpg
    All 80x36 as that’s just about a perfect fit for the space I have at the moment.
    Things I’m wondering about are
    1. Reversing – is it possible to include some sort of reverse into any of these plans?
    2. DCC or DC? The atlas plan has detailed wiring for DC info and that’s good because right now I can’t afford a DCC system. Well I can swing something no doubt but saving money on DCC means more for trains J
    3. Yards ,Yards ,Yards – still reading through Track Planning for Realistic Operation and the MRR guide to Freight yards but I’m still not sure I’m absorbing the info well enough to see the issues that might come up .
    4. Clearance – Especially on the three times around I wonder how much clearance I need between the top of the rails and any bridges , I looked up the NMRA standards which show that there should be 1.75” or about 45mm . Therefore I’m thinking 2” or about 50mm . Am I correct?
    That’s about all I can type for now LOl
    Suggestions and critiques welcome!
     
  10. redbandit14

    redbandit14 TrainBoard Member

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    I liked the idea of that too. But after much thought that one of the very few things I liked.
     
  11. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    My Opinion -
    For Now:
    • Keep it simple
    • Reduce the amount of track
    • Keep it on one level
    • Get some trains running
    Get some experience building the layout, doing scenery and wiring. When that is all done and you have run trains for a while look to how you might expand it. Take a look at plan #14 in 101 Track plans and then how I modified it:
    [​IMG]

    This is just an example of how you could take a plan and modify it to fit your desires. It is squeezed into a 2'X5' area. With an 36"X80" area you could modify it quite a bit.
    Possible Modifications to the Above:
    • A 2nd outside line
    • An outside link to an 'interchange yard" - Allows cars to have a place to go to and come from
    • Break the oval with a curve on the far side - major aesthetics improvement
    • Add a backdrop - creating two worlds
    • Add a few hills in the corner for a mountain and by extension the tunnel
    • Lengthen the yard
    To get the depth for a bridge you can build the layout on stacks of foam and cut down through it.
    Hope this helps.
     
  12. glakedylan

    glakedylan TrainBoard Member

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    FWIW
    I think you did well (i.e. OP) with the visual block between long sides of plan
    even if you like watching trains go around and around
    I think it is more helpful to not be able to follow the train through all parts of an oval
    in this size of a layout
    I would keep the visual divide, whether it is a two-sided backdrop or a fairly solid line
    of structures tall enough to block view or disguise the oval
    respectfully
    Gary
     
  13. redbandit14

    redbandit14 TrainBoard Member

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    Excellent advice and it certainly is copacetic with my original thoughts.

    I was confused by the reference to plan 14 as that one's a figure 8 in my copy but then i realized you were looking at plan 11.

    And that's a really nice expansion of that plan and has gotten my brain running in circles LOL .

    Trying to figure out what plan you were talking about led me to a thread about time savers of all things which led me to Byron Henderson's blog. In particular his post on plan 6 from 101 Track plans and how he modified it as a Ho 4x8. Now I'm looking at what i can do with it and plan 11 in 80x36.

    DKS gave me a really great alternative plan based on my original which i like a lot, and in fact it's that alternative that got me away from the original in the first place. The link is dead now but here is is - kto2.jpg i love the way it's more Organic(?) than my original. I'm not totally sure about the yards to the left though. And looking at the original image i realize why. I created a version in scarm and I've been looking at my version and my lack of skills did not quite do it justice.I'm going to take another look.

    Ok rambling more than usual so I'm going to stop here and go do some actual work.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2014
  14. redbandit14

    redbandit14 TrainBoard Member

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    This where the Scenic & Relaxed is now after some adjusting and I've clearly marked track heights as well. Scenic&Relaxed80x36_Track_Scenery .jpg

    And I've added some scenery and buildings to have an idea of how it might all fit together.

    I've been looking at a variation of the S&R called the Firebaugh Rail Lines which is in Code 55. He has some good ideas for modifications , ideas I had already done in some cases LOl .
    I've been doing a great deal of reading and while this one is is still pretty attractive I'm very undecided right now. [​IMG]

    Reading a lot of threads and more than a few blogs has me re accessing yet again what I want and how exactly I might get it.

    One thing is for sure 3 times I've measured the space and 80x36 is going to be just about perfect. There is not really a wall I can use or an L shape might work as well. That may change but I'm not holding my breath.
     
  15. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    If you mostly view the above layout as switching with the option for continuous running then it is ok. If you intend to run a 'local freight' servicing those industries then it gets iffy.
    If you plan to run it as a main line and serve the industries with a second train then it just plain does not work.
    Operations 1 - Local freight:
    1. Loco leaves engine house and crosses the main
    2. Makes up a local freight using the run-a-round on the main
    3. Returns to engine house crossing the main
    4. Road engine leaves engine house crossing the main
    5. Picks up train prepared by yard goat
    6. Takes off to deliver / pick up cars at various industries using passing sidings as run-a-round tracks
    That does not work for me.
    Operations 2 - Just switching:
    1. Switcher / Geep leaves engine house
    2. Proceeds to yard
    3. Makes up train with required cars
    4. Using the run-a-round as need be
    5. Delivers / picks up cars
    6. Using the local run-a-rounds as need be
    That works.
    Operations 3 - Main line with local freight or switching
    I can't figure that one out at all.
    Operations 4 - Just running trains and maybe some switching
    That works but I would add more yard or interchange storage if I am just running trains.
    Overall:
    The track plan works for limited purposes but if they fit your needs then it is perfect.
    .
     
  16. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    I would love to see how Dave would incorporate a variation on this plan on an HCD.
    [​IMG]

    With extra width a view block would be easy to add as would deeper scenery. Personally instead of up and over I'd suggest 3 to 9 layers of 1" foam. You could then dig down and create a very convincing need for several bridges if you wanted to.
    With more length and width a loop could be included.
     
  17. txronharris

    txronharris TrainBoard Member

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    I've been following along and have to echo what Grey and others have said in similar threads (including mine). Keeping it simple, getting something reasonably complete and running trains is the best course of action. All of those plans look great (I like the DKS one most) but when I considered what I was looking for, I started with my list of everything I wanted, them steadily reduced it until I has a manageable plan without a lot of clutter. I personally think on a smaller door type layout that modeling an interchange track instead of a yard works better. Your space is limited and filling every inch up with track takes away from operations in my opinion. Even if you only want to see trains run and don't want to do much switching, uncluttering a layout makes it more enjoyable, less expensive to get started and gives you opportunities to work on your skills before you jump off into a huge project. Even planning for expansion is an option so you can utilize what you build today in the future. It really just depends on your perspective of what your want your railroad to be. All of the plans offered up all have good points to them. To me though, simplicity leaning towards more realistic operations (insert no steep grades, less track here) is the key. Just my thoughts.
     
  18. redbandit14

    redbandit14 TrainBoard Member

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    I've spent time reading and trying this and that and realized what I need to do is build something. I picked the Scenic & Relaxed because it's basically a no brainer to wire everything and has a fair amount of documentation.


    However I've decided to regress even further. Partially as it gives me a chance to actually learn to do some of the things i want to do ,partially as it gives my 9 year old much more opportunity to get involved.


    So i'm going back to my roots (The Ho Railroad That grows) and following the plan in a book i bought a few years ago called N Scale Model Railroad That Grows.


    The plan is simple , it takes me step by step,and by stages and having had a look at it both My daughter and GF are anxious to get going and want to take part.


    It will NOT be a great operations railroad.I can see that already but It will allow for some skill building /refreshment and as I plan on doing it in roughly the stages they suggest I will have the opportunity to bail out and start over fairly easily.


    I have made a couple of changes and may make more as I go along.
    -First the original is 60x40 and I'm enlarging it slightly to 80 x40 . That gives their original 9'3/4 radius curves a chance for some easement. Most are out to 11 now and I've used sAlso ome 19 where I could. There's touch more room for scenery .
    -Second the book uses a method of construction that I'm pretty sure I don't like LOL they suggest foam core . I actually got as far as setting up the bench work and well, it fell apart pretty quick long before there was ever a chance to lay the track. So it will be 2 inch foam over a 1x3 framework. that way it's strong and i'll have a better chance to preserve it when the inevitable move comes along.


    I actually have all but a few pieces of Flex to lay the track as well which is quite handy .


    Ok here is the track plan. The red track is the final stage and at this point i really don't know if we will go that far. N_That_Grows_GOOD .jpg
    I know the little loop around the town is pretty goofy .But operations not being all that important at this point i thought why not?


    Stage one will be the main loop , North passing siding and the Cement Factory and Loco service spur. once i get that working reliably and have some scenery happening I'll do the south passing siding and spur and that goofy loop. Stage 3 will be the elevated section.
     
  19. PaulBeinert

    PaulBeinert TrainBoard Supporter

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    RedBandit,
    We will want pictures of the build!
    Start building and have fun!
     

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