Hello everyone and sorry in advance about length of my post ! As the title says I need lots of info and input. Might even need a ticket back to earth ! I have been looking at Model Railroader, Atlas HO layouts, Classic Toy Trains, you tube, forums, ect for almost a month now. I am still at the starting line, (No) Layout design I like. Part of the agreement to build a model train display was - It could not be a point to point/ end to end. Along with that continuous running trains 3-4 and I have to be able to store it when I am not working or viewing it. Sounds easy enough, So I thought ! Here I am still without a layout design nor ERA I would like to use. Everything I have is over 20+ years, just pulled out of garage. 3 H.O. Throttle pack (older) 2 Loco's and a few cars some H.O. scale track I am going back and forth trying to decide if I should stick with H.O. Scale or start over with N scale. N scale I could probably with help find a layout design that will work. H.O. Scale - not sure if I will have the room big enough. I started a list of things I would like my layout to have and trains I like: multi levels - train running under bridge, over a bridge and maybe one up in the mountains mountains with tunnels for trains to run through Wood Trestle Bridge ( fairly long) -- pretty good with my hands, so I could probably build it. (engines) To give you and idea of what I would like to run and radius sizes. Allegheny type 2-6-6-6 - (from what I have read need wide radius turns so would have to be on outside of display) 2-8-4 Berkshire Santa Fe F3 SD70ACe Diesels Freight cars --- (no) passenger cars Now by now I know someone is saying, well how much room do you have to work with? If the display can me suspended from the rafters when I store it 5'x7' If I build a platform I can breakdown I have 6'x9' area BUT, if I agree to take my 60x18x26 predator tank which is sitting on 72x24 stand down I can go bigger. :wideeyes: That's (not) going to happen! Thank you for taking the time to read my post. Cheers to you, if you have some light to shine at the end of my tunnel !!! Burgh,
With N scale, you'd certainly be able to do more, in a restricted space. We have such possibilities as the "HCD", or Hollow Core Door. And several modular concepts, such as NTrak, oNeTrak, T-Trak, BendTrack and FreeMoN. I'm not certain what track radius at a minimum, a locomotive such as a 2-6-6-6 would require. Using your given of 5 by 7 feet, about the maximum available there would be 28 inch, which I am sure would work. But that is getting close to table edge, remembering that when we speak of radius, we are talking of the track center line. So you'd barely have an inch of space from end of ties to the edge. Being that close makes me a bit nervous! Are there any clubs in your vicinity? Perhaps one doing modular? Perhaps you could join and build a couple of modules, to set up with them? Whatever happens, keep reading, and ask those questions. You'll save yourself from wasting time, money and being frustrated!
I agree you don't have enough room for an HO layout, especially since you want to run big steam engines. So...that leaves N-scale or Z, and although there's some nice stuff in Z, I'm a rabid N-scale proponent. When I read your post, it appears that you're suffering from information overload. Lots of times when we get into this hobby, we suffer from that since there is SO MUCH information that is available for us to partake of in this hobby, 'specially if we're not focused. Time to step back, and get a little focus. First, what prototype railroad do you like the very best? Is it an eastern road or a western road, USA or Canada? What era do you think of when you close your eyes and imagine trains running on your layout? Do you see steam engines? Do you see first and second generation diesels? Or do you see mo' modern stuff. Do you see cabooses? How about passenger stations and freight houses? Just sit back for a quiet few minutes, have a beer, get a pen and something to write on, and write down VERY SPECIFICALLY what you see when you imagine your layout. The more detailed, the better. From your list of engines you like, you've listed four, and three of the four are transition era engines, and one modern diesel. I'm betting you're leaning towards "transition era" as far as motive power is concerned. All of the engines you've listed (except for the modern one) are engines that ran on big class 1 railroads, with distinctive architecture, distinctive topography and distinctive track furniture (signal towers, switchstands, signage, etc.). Okay, after you've written down what you perceive in your head about what you see there, there will probably be some inconsistencies, which is to be expected, but, if you post the results here, you'll give those of us who may give you advice a better idea of what may suit your preferences. Remember, it's a hobby, and it's designed to be fun. YOU are the master of your little world you're going to create and any layout you create can always be changed, sold or scrapped. Most of the fun is in the creating, not sitting back and watching trains go by...at least for most of us. Also, if you design your little layout to be high (which is a good idea for an N-scale layout...50" to 54" tall from railhead to floor) you can but stuff under it and maybe gain more space. It's also easier to work on and give you a much better view of your rolling stock and engines. If you can draw up a plan of the space you've got, including windows, doors, furniture that can't be moved...that will also assist anybody who might want to give you advice. What you're asking now with the very limited information you've provided is not sufficient for most of us to give you anything but personal opinions. The mo' info you give us, the mo' what we say will be what you want, rather than what we like. I look forward to more posts from you and have fun! Layout design is a lot of fun, but it can be frustrating because there's a lot to it...so, I'd recommend going down to your LHS and seeing what they have as far as books are concerned that show small layouts in all scales. You can always adapt different scale plans to N-scale. Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
Thanks BoxcabE50 for the reply! I have been looking at the HCD idea which would work. I could even make the platform little wider. I thought about a 11 x 3 x 3 , 8 x 3 x 3 L - shape platform or 11 x 4 , 11 x 3. Which is probably best. Able to reach everything, more viewing shape, no to big. Plus able to add on later. I searched online for clubs, but haven't found any within 1.5 hours of me. I am going to stop at local hobby store today and ask the owner if she knows of any. Robert3985, Thank you also ! You hit the nail on the head, to much info in short amount of time. Overload... As for prototype, Western more so. Time frame - WWW- Wild Wild West. When I thing of train the first image is a big old steam loco puffing big clouds of smoke rumbling down the track. A guy yelling more coal and covered with black soot. Large wooden curved trestle bridges running over a canyon, gorge, or river so the metal beast can further it's journey. Mountains spearing up out of the ground challenging the metal beast to try and best them. Tunnels that look like black holes to the unknown, till the faint glow of a single headlight pierces the darkness. Supplies and workers laying more track just outside a tiny town looking to grow since the RR will be running through it. I guess that is a start. ;-) Hmm, engines, I like steam better. The Santa Fe I listed above was my first train as a child and the other diesel was one that caught my eye looking at other setups. My favorite was my fathers BIG BOY! I could watch that thing for hours ! I wasn't lucky enough to get that one, Grrrr !!! I was told, I am to young and it went to someone else during parents split. This is why it has taken me over 20+ years to touch the box of train stuff I have. BUT, my daughter has asked me for a few years if I could build one and my little boy goes (nuts) when he see's trains. Basement layout - I will work on mapping it out. As for space, I pretty much have the middle of the floor on one half of the basement. This area is to work on display and view it, after I'm done prob lift it to hang from rafters. My children are to young to have a display just sitting. That is danger danger Will Robinson !! My daughter is 7 and will think she is helping daddy, LOL!!! my son is 1, bull in a china shop. If he can't pull it down than he will try and run it over. Got to love them !!!!! Reading material - I bought all the magazine I could find at Barnes and noble, they can order me books but they don't stock them. I was told I am better off downloading them to my e-reader. Model Railroader special issue - Great model railroads 2014 . holiday 2013 Model Railroader volume 80 issue 12 classic toy trains vol. 27 issue 1 Local hobby store didn't have much in stock, but was able to pick up: Atlas HO Layouts - for every space book # 11 Atlas seven step-by-step HO Railroads book# 13 I subscribed to Model Railroads and plan on going to library today to see what I can find. Thank you both once again ! I will do some more brain storming and try and make a drawling of basement layout. Look forward to chatting soon !! Cheers !!! Chris / Burgh,
I think I have found a layout design with lots of potential for what I want. Even (better) the layout was created by a gentleman of TrainBoard ! Granted he no longer has it, but it's a start. [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Georgia, Verdana]DiezMon[/FONT] https://picasaweb.google.com/timdiez...eat=directlink
N Scale is a great choice for large steam, but the VERY first thing that I would do is throw away most track plans for railroads drawn before 1980.These tend to have too much track and do not look realistic. Now there are some that are realistic, but not too many. An HO scale 18" radius turn looks toy-like, but looks great in N Scale, yet both are tighter than what a real F7 can turn on. I have an F7 operators manual, and it says that the F7's minimum radius is 274 feet, or 20.55 inches in N Scale or 37.79 inches in HO. Now that being said, the same F7 as a model will turn on a 9.75" (N) or 18" (HO) radius...Bachmann has really started to push for a larger N scale radius of 11.25" or more. IF I were planing a continuous run layout, and I found an HO layout that I liked, I would build it as a 3/4 size model. A HO 4x8 will then become a 3x6, and then the 18" radius would be 13.5"....you will have better running equipment and it will look more realistic.
Thanks for the advice Bremner ! I will keep it in mind when picking a layout. The one above doesn't seem to bad and very interesting. I think I got ahead of myself thought. Granted, I didn't run out and buy anything to start yet. But, that one may be a little much for my first display. I think i'm going to go little smaller for my first layout. I have a bad habit of starting something and going to big and get bored with it before I finish. I still hear about my garden train that's still in the box ....... :-0 N scale and around the size of HCD. (already have plywood and other materials from other projects in garage) Plus, do some brain storming / ;-) quote from Mr. Bob G. Time to step back, and get a little focus. First, what prototype railroad do you like the very best? Is it an eastern road or a western road, USA or Canada? What era do you think of when you close your eyes and imagine trains running on your layout? Do you see steam engines? Do you see first and second generation diesels? Or do you see mo' modern stuff. Do you see cabooses? How about passenger stations and freight houses? Just sit back for a quiet few minutes, have a beer, get a pen and something to write on, and write down VERY SPECIFICALLY what you see when you imagine your layout. The more detailed, the better. Thank you all once again !! Chris / Burgh
Also, while at the hobby shop, inquire of any swap meets or shows in the area. If so, you could attend one or two, and do a little asking around. Have you checked www.ntrak.org ? A huge modular N scale organization. There might be, I would believe there should be, some folks around a settlement the size of Pittsburgh!
This time of year go check out the Western PA Model Railroad Museaum in Gibsonia - wpmrm.org. You will find plenty of inspiration there and can become a member if you like. If you're on the west side of Pittsburgh check out Hobby Express in Cranberry. If you're on the east side check our Niedzalkoski's in Jeanette - needztrains.com. If you're interested in N check out Esther's in Millville. If you ever go the O / O-27 route, just go outside and throw a rock - you'll probably hit a Lionel or MTH dealer. When kids are mentioned I typically don't think N scale. I suggest you think about how you want to involve them going forward and how you will balance your interests vs theirs.
Connellsville and Cliff Hanger Railroad. That should get you started. I can only agree that more room, would be better. However, you need to get started, lay track and let the layout teach you. I had hours of fun on my first 4 X 8 HO scale layout. It eventually grew to a 6 X 8, then I added a 2 X 12 which extended itself to a 4 X 4 in a U shaped layout. It still wasn't big enough. Go figure. Go get started and have some fun.
Thank you for the info and suggestions ! I am going to ( Greenberg's Toy and Train Show) Jan 19th. I spoke to a gentleman that was operating a holiday display at local police station. He is part of a group, but they are into Lionel trains. Local hobby store suggested Western PA Model Railroad Museaum in Gibsonia like lars128. Which wouldn't be bad if it wasn't 45+ minutes away. O well.. I am going to try and find Esther's in Millville, which per map quest should be about 25 minute drive. (My son should be able to make that drive without flipping out). Hopefully ! On another note thou, between this forum, library, magazines, and online I should have more than enough info/help. I did go and admire the display at the Carnegie science center. I could spend a few hours looking at it. Skip to 1:16 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1k-nKU4EkM I thought about going HO scale, but don't have the room to do what I want. 4X8 layout wasn't going to cut it and if I couldn't go bigger than I wasn't going to do HO. N-scale seems so tiny, but I can create a display that will keep my attention and I will enjoy building. As for my kids... My daughter should be able to work the controls once I learn and teach her. It will be a few years for my son, he is just a little over a year and will be fine just watching. Now handling of the trains is a different story.. I did build my platform, I had a bunch of lumber left over from aquarium stands I built. I decided to go with 3.5 x 6.5 with folding legs. I hope to run to Hobby Town today on my lunch break and grab a book or two on dcc wiring. I think I am going with the NCE Power Cab.
