I've seen a few pictures of steam locomotives with pilots on the tender where the locomotives were not turned at either end of a run. Mostly commuter, industrial or branch line use, something I am considering doing with my layout (in development) so I don't have to spend the acreage or electrical complication on reversing loops, wye's or turntables. Does anyone make pilot castings? I'd be fitting them to Athearn 2-8-0's.
Micro Trains makes some steam pilot conversions that have the MT coupler already in the pilot for a simple replacement on some locos. With those it is probably just a fairly simple bit of surgery to adapt the mounting the tongue of the pilot conversion in place of a tender body mounted coupler. The other source off the top of my head would be Republic Locomotive Works in their N scale parts section. Also some of their Nn3 parts will also fit so check that parts listing also. Most of their stuff though is metal castings that you have to adapt for a coupler.
Those Micro-Trains conversion pilots are handy for this type of thing, I've also used them on locos for which they were not designed to get a working coupler on the front. I often wonder though, how long MT will continue to make them for the long (some very long) out of production locos for which they are intended.
What I have noticed is that there are a few less of the steam pilot conversions now than there were 10 years ago. So I think as the demand for some types has decreased MT has stopped making them. Another use for them has been in small boxcab type locos and other small critters to adapt a pilot with working coupler.
Unfortunately the photos I have are all in my reference books and cannot be reproduced. However the GN and the NP used locos with tender pilots in the early days on the switchbacks in the Cascades and it was common on quite a few of the steam commuter roads in the east. Also found on a number of rod type logging locos where the loco would have no provision for turning.
I did not know that any commuter power ran tender first with regullarity. Did they run at speed that way? I have seen photographs of freight power that operated tender first with regullarity, but never passenger. I have seen more than one commuter tank locomotive that had a pilot on both ends, but I have never seen a passenger locomotive that had a pilot on the tender. You can mount a MT working pilot with coupler onto the front of the MDC 2-8-0. You simply undo the screw that is under the pilot truck, lift the cylinders from the boiler, remove the factory pilot truck, swap in the MT truck with coupler, refasten the screw and put it onto the track. I took off the pilot and left the footboards, as mine does switching duties, mostly. At some point, I will add a generator. It already has a compressor. I plan to leave the mantel-clock headlight fixture. I want it to reflect an old 2-8-0 that the railroad saved from the scrapper's torch rather than buy a new switcher. It simply would have put an electric light into the old oil mantel clock fixture. Burlington did that with more than one 4-4-0 and 2-6-2. Of course, on the Athearn, that is not necessary, as the pilot has a MT. If you want to preserve the MT on the tender truck, I would hit the shows or one of the internet group trading posts and buy a basket case older Bachpersonn. You can drill a hole(s) into the lip on the aft of the Athearn/MDC tender. I would then cut the cannibalised pilot to accommodate the swivelling aft truck then screw it onto the lip on the tender with MT coupler screws. I have seen pilot castings, but , again, it has been at shows where the vendor had New Old Stock at his table. I even have a pair of obvious nineteenth century wood pilots made from some sort of pot metal. I do not know where they are, off the top of my head. So they are out there. You would have to hit a show, a cyber trading post or a hobby store website that lists the detail parts that it stocks.
The Boston & Albany ran 4-6-4Ts for commuter service out of Boston's South Station. IIRC, they had pilots on both ends because of limited or no turntables out in the 'burbs and boonies. I'll see if I can locate a photo later tonight after church.
The thing about tenders with pilots is it was for the most part an older practice and not seen much, at least on the western roads after the 1930s or even a little earlier. As earlier stated roads that had no turning facilities at the end of a line or in the early days had switchbacks occasionally had a tender pilot. I have quite a few books with older photos of them present on both standard and narrow gauge. Usually those locos stayed in basically captive service to the area and rarely strayed beyond it's normal operating area. It would be unusual to find one in mainline service out west although I do have one photo I came across in one of my books of one in mainline service with the tender pilot. The loco had just been re-assigned down off the switchbacks and most likely at the first major shopping that tender pilot came off. The original post describing the operations would have been an applicable instance where a tender pilot would have been used based on the roads operating practices. As far as speed goes most locomotives could run a fairly good clip tender first, the exception would have been the absence of a trailing truck under the firebox. I did not mention the tank type locos used for commuter since they did not have tenders and were designed for speed running either way.
The B&A ran the 4-6-6Ts and 2-6-4Ts. The former looked like chopped down J3s with a fuel/water bunker added. I was unaware that the B&A had 4-6-4Ts. One of the NYCS subsidiaries in Kentucky or Ohio had one or two 2-8-2Ts. CNJ had 4-6-4Ts. Reading Company had 2-6-4Ts that powered Philadelphia commuter trains until electrification. SP operated 2-6-2Ts on its Lake Merritt line before the railroad electrified it. They were the only examples of the Prairie type that SP had. One does survive, although I do not know if it operates. Lima/AHM sold an example of the Reading Company locomotive. Sadly, it is from the early days of N scale, so it does not operate well. Funny thing, if you take out the motor and weight it, it will freewheel nicely, so you can use it as a switcher if you couple it to a cheater boxcar. There is a rumour that the guy in Europe who invented an upgrade for the Arnold S-2 is trying to invent a drive for it. So yes, I am aware of tank power that operated in both directions on passenger service. I was not aware that any passenger power operated tender first on a regular basis. If you took the Boone, Iowa trip, the Chinese 2-8-2 left the station tender first then returned in usual direction. I do not know if it still does.
And finally after some digging around on the internet wasteland here is a standard loco with tender and pilot on the tender. And a better shot.
You're right, sorry. It's interesting how the coal bunker was cut inwards to give the engineer and fireman better vision while backing.
I have, somewhere in my reading, come across logging locomotives with tender pilots, a couple of short lines with older 4-4-0's and 2-6-0's and 2-6-2's with tender pilots. There's an interesting Youtube video of a Chinese commuter operation using the ubiquitous 2-8-2's that are not turned and run backwards in one direction. I've seen tender pilots on some South and Central American engines too. I get tired of the "roundy roundy" layout operation (although the grandkids like it), but turntables and wyes just take up more space than I want to dedicate to turning. My railroad will have a Arizona theme, probably mining (I don't want to make that many trees). I know "tender-first" operation was not really done on mainline working, but I have to think that not every low-budget short line would spring for a turntable, or even to buy the land a wye would take up. Especially if speeds were low, and trains were short. Thanks everyone. I'm thinking the way to go on my Athearn 2-8-0 would be to get an appropriate MT replacement pilot, cut off the truck-mounted coupler and screw the new pilot in place with a couple of multiple 0000 screws.
Thanks for those photographs, John Moore. I went looking to see what they were. I looked on a NYCS 1944 roster and saw that the series was a 2-8-2, but you can tell from the photographs that those locomotives ain't no mikados. They looked more like ten wheelers or eight wheelers. As one photograph carries a 1955 date, I guessed that the road number was the result of re-numbering to make way for the diseasels. I guessed from the St. Thomas caption that this might be a Canadian locomotive. I found another photograph of 1291, sure enough, taken in Ontario and in 1956. You could not see the tender pilot, but it was towing a water bottle, an RPO and a caboose. The caption stated that since the water towers were gone, the train needed a water bottle. I am guessing that the water towers were not the only steam facilities missing. The railroad had probably taken out the wye or turntable, as well. The train appeared to be a branch line passenger; there was the locomotive, auxilliary tender, RPO and caboose. I am guessing that the mail was the only thing that kept the train operating that late and that the railroad figured that the two or three passengers could ride in a caboose. I would guess that this is a short Branch line trip, thus the railroad could get away with tender first operation. I would wonder what the railroad would do with the auxiliary tender. Would the locomotive take water from it on the trip out when it was running locomotive first, then use water from its own tender on the trip when it ran tender first and drag the water bottle somewhere in the consist? Or did the railroad equip the auxilliary tender with pumps? The locomotive appears to be a re-numbered class F-82. The caption in the John Moore provided photograph says 'St. Thomas'. One site stated that the F-82s were built at 'St. Thomas'.
There are other photos of this locomotive and both tenders had pilots so the canteen would also be in the lead position on reverse trips and not switched out. Most if not all had pumps and it may have been the practice to draw from both especially with the tenders in the lead for better tracking. Seeing the canteen with the pilot is a first for me but makes sense when they would have been in regular use on a run where the trip back was in reverse. Saw a lot of their use when growing up out west in the last years of steam on both the NP and GN. Management was not investing in repairs or new facilities when diesels were already on board and the addition of the canteens allowed longer runs on mainlines and the abandonment of some of the water tanks and pump houses. Typical was one load of fuel to three loads of water.
This is a couple of pictures of a Western Australian Government Railways (WAGR) V class 2-8-2 - produced in the early 1950's. Like most WAGR steam locomotives, they have matching pilots on the front of the locomotive and the rear of the tender, as the two pictures below of V 1217 (on different trains) show: Front: Rear: The loco above is not shunting (switching), but is hauling the coal train tender first. These were mainly heavy goods / fast goods locomotives, but most locomotives here had them, from logging locomotives through to passenger and light branchline locomotives. Cheers, Matt. *Pictures courtesy of the Rail Heritage WA website - great photo archive over there based out of the museum in Perth, WA.
Three things to consider here... 1) Era. Over time, the 'cowcatcher' style of pilot shrank steadily and evolved into either a remnant or a streamlined battering ram. So depending on your era they might be there; usually pre-1900 and knuckle couplers for what you'd be talking about. Once knuckle couplers and air hoses came about, those pilots were REALLY in the way of brakeman, coupling, and uncoupling. The 'half pilot' with footboards at the sides was about as big as it got. 2) Use. I think I've only seen a couple older geared locomotives with actual 'cowcatcher' style pilots (but there were some real beauties - look on shaylocomotives.com), and never anything on the rear. I won't say they didn't exist, but loggers in general had no use for stuff in the way. My own little logging common-carrier had a batch of rod and geared power, a six-mile 'main line', and never turned a locomotive. Ever. Ran in reverse to the interchange, tender first. About the only adaptation to regularly running in reverse was a full-sized headlight on the tender on everything. One secondhand 2-6-0 had a real cowcatcher, other than that, all switching pilots with just full-width footboards front and rear. See http://www.randgust.com/Hv5D.jpg Those full-width footboards served the purpose of stopping debris from getting under the locomotive. That feature seems to be pretty standard from what I've seen. 3) Function. There wasn't much need for a 'deflector' when you're running 10mph and can just stop. As locomotive weights increased, knocking one off the track with a buffalo/cow/moose became less likely, part of 1). If your particular prototype had them, more power to you, it's an unusual and interesting detail. But they are pretty unusual, and by no means standard practice even if the locomotive involved spent a great deal of time running backwards. And like on the prototype, they really get in the way of couplers.
Footboards on a loco pilot became a sort of holdover that served no purpose like poling pockets but seemed to be around forever. Safety issues killed riding on pilots especially when coupling and most photos and videos show the brakeman riding the side stirrup. With the exception of the front pilot when there was none present. Then the tendency was to lean out to the outside for visibility and dismount just before coupling. If the brakeman lost his grip and fell he most likely fell to the side of the roadbed rather than under the loco wheels. And he could be clearly seen by the cab crew on the side. Logging roads, unless they were a common carrier, were a world apart on what they did and got away with. Common carrier status meant they had to follow the rules. As dangerous as they were the link and pin was around long after every road in the US was rid of them, on the non common carriers.
I'm not sure of the circumstances, but one of my great uncles was 'run over by a Shay' and killed, presumably W&D #6, judging by the year it happened. Unless you're riding front-end footboards and slipped off, or in full Rule G violation, I don't know how that happens. As one observant railfan commented, 'wow, how slow do you have to be to get run over by a Shay?'. Yet you'll see those full-width footboards on most switchers and industrial locomotives, and standard equipment on a lot of small common-carrier steam. Remember diesels could have pilot footboards until 1978.
