Hey there fellow conductors! Here recently I have decided I wanted to get back into model railroading. My Dad used to have an O Track with some diesel engines about 10 years ago that I used to play around on. He still has all the 3 rail track, some freight cars, but no more engines. I have decided that I want N scale because of the space I have available: not very much. I might be able to move some stuff around and I can get you guys an accurate size of my area, but I'll wait to do that until I'm sure I want to go through with this hobby. What I'm really interested in is the yard. I loved switching the cars around. I don't care that much for a loop, but wouldn't mind it. I was in Drafting today and I drew up a little track using a piece of paper and I thought it was pretty nice. I used 45 degree angles for the curves just to get a basic feel for the layout. What I did was drew an outer loop and an inner loop. These loops were connected in the front with an X. The point of the X was so I could go to either track with a train. In the middle of the inner loop would be my yard. I would like some help designing a yard, or any links to some helpful resources. I would really like to know the smallest radius for the turns I should make in my layout for a standard-sized diesel engine. I do have access to ACAD and am proficient enough in it to make a layout in it if I need to, which probably would be quicker than hand drawing it. What size turnouts are there? What size do you think I should use if there are more than one size? If you don't feel like reading, here's the jist of it: 1. What are some good yard designs for N Scale? 2. How small can I make the turns in N Scale for standard-sized diesel engines? 3. I want to make a track that has an inner circle in an outer circle, connected by an X in the front for switching between loops, with a yard in the middle. Is this feasible in a small space? 4. Anyone out there with ACAD experience who can give me a few pointers with their experience making a layout on it? 5. What size turnouts should I use? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated and hope to be a very active part of this Forum. -Robert
Robert, Welcome to TrainBoard! Below is a link to a discussion of various track design software: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?106277-Drawing-a-Track-Plan-with-XTrkCad The smallest radius in sectional track is 9 3/4" and that can be tight for a lot of the equipment (both engines and rolling stock) and the smallest turnouts are #4's. A lot will depend upon how much space you have and money will be a consideration. Naturally, you can start small and grow the layout over time. You might check to see if there are any NTrak or FreeMo groups in your area as that way you could build modules.
I would suggest trying to maintain at least 11", radius if possible. What you ask in #3 certainly has been done. The "X" is known as a double crossover. When planning, there can be an urge to cram in as much as can be shoehorned. Hopefully you can avoid that temptation! Please give us an idea of how much space you would have available. Also, another consideration might be either the Hollow Core Door ("HCD"), or taking a look at the T-Trak concept. We even have Groups for both here on TrainBoard.
I measured the space under my bed and found that I have about a 72" x 44" workable space. Although the idea of a modular layout is really cool, I think I'm going to stick with the idea of having the whole track as one piece. The HCD idea seems really nice after seeing some of the things people have been doing with it. After talking it over with my Dad we aren't going to be joining any of the clubs around here mainly because they all accept visitors, at least the ones I checked out, and they have monthly dues that must be paid in order to be in the club. My thoughts were I could go to the various clubs, get a good feel for how there tracks are set up, and then incorporate my favorite ideas into my layout.
I have plans for a 2X4' coffee table layout which could be expanded to fit the size you are looking at. PM me with your email addy if interested.
Robert, What is the height that will fit under the bed? At 72x44 you have a good amount of space to do a double main (with a couple of crossovers) and have room inside for a yard and some industries.
I didn't check the height, Paul, but at most I could get away with would be about 1'. It's a futon so it has to be able to fold up into a couch. Anybody have some good yard designs, or a place where I can find some more information?
Robert, Do a search on yards in this forum. Here is one the ones that I found: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine...mall-and-medium-freight-yards&highlight=yards
This may be more "theory" than you want to get into. It should help to know what a yard does and what YOU want to do with it. Here is a generalized "schematic" of a basic yard. It is not a worked-out "plan" for N scale or ANY scale. The main line on a model RR layout would probably be a loop, but on the schematic, it is drawn like a straight line that goes on forever. It has switches at both ends that allow a train running on the main line from either direction to run off the thru line to the arrival/departure track in the yard. Most real railroad yards are built to be entered from either direction. Many model RR layouts, especially small ones, save space and track switches by having a yard a train can enter only from one way. Since this is a double-ended track, a road engine going in either direction can uncouple from its train and get loose. Sent to the loco track to be serviced. If it is running westbound/ towards the left, it can cut off from its train, go out onto the main, "run around" on the main to get to loco track without disturbing its cars. The switching lead allows a switcher to pull cars from the train and sort them sound in class ("classification") tracks without having to block the main while switching. Real railroads often try to have most tracks in a yard double-ended, accessible from both ends. I drew 2 of the class tracks this way. Doesn't HAVE to be done on a model RR but it can make the work easier for switch crews. A lot more could be said... Here is a plan for a fairly simple and small 3 x 4 foot layout, with a "hint" of a yard. A yard can work with TWO dead end spur tracks. I drew them on the outside of the loop track. The spurs are parallel/ concentric with what could serve as a passing siding on the mainline. Several tricks here- the 2 spur tracks and 2-track passing siding make what looks like a 4-track wide "yard" on one side. It goes around a corner out of sight, suggesting there is more to the yard than the part we see. On the other side of the layout, a highway underpass obscures the 2 dead-end tracks, so we see a single mainline divide into 2 tracks, suggesting the point where a passing siding begins and goes out of sight under an underpass. Only 1 train at a time can "run" on this layout, but two can be set up-- one could be a peddler local switching freight that works "each town" and the other a long-distance through freight. Or the second train could be a passenger express. If more than 4 foot length is available, some of the crowdedness of the town trackage could be eased. This is not the solution to YOUR layout/ yard problem but I thought it might suggest some ideas and raise some questions.
Robert, Here is a thread about some free software for designing a layout. I have not checked it out as I had already purchased AnyRail. http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine...-Simple-Computer-Aided-Railway-Modeller/page2
Thank you for all that information, Kenneth. I've seen a few yards in various places that use a turntable. Are there any advantages to this? The thought of having a turntable seems pretty cool. I don't plan on buying anything, Paul, so I'll make due with what's free. I might even just scribble on more paper. What kind of track would be good for my first layout?
I don't think of a turntable so much as part of a "yard" as it is part of an engine terminal. It's purpose is to turn locomotives so they can be headed the right direction for their run. Also they allow a number of locos to be stored/ accessed/ housed without a number of switches. On a layout, modelers like them because they are "railroady" in addition to their actual function. They are more needed for steam locomotives than diesels. As I recall, you were going to limit yourself to short-wheelbase locomotives because of your sharp curves. WHY would you need to turn locos? On a real railroad, a terminal at the east end would run trains toward the west. When they get where they are going in the west, the locos would be turned at the west end for the eastbound trip. (A freight train usually would NOT be turned because cars need to go on to wherever they are delivering goods, not go back o the originating point. A passenger train might be turned because it will be used to carry different passengers in the opposite direction. Or returning round-trip passengers.) A real railroad might need TWO turntables, one at each end. Or it might use other ways to turn locos, such as a wye track (takes up a LOT of space) or a reverse loop. You wrote about having two oval loops of track, one inside the other. Would I be correct in assuming you want to model a double-track mainline, where two trains could go in opposite directions? If you are doing that, do you plan to have a reverse loop so a train that leaves a terminal going clockwise can turn around and come back counterclockwise? That would allow "out and back" operation. A lot of people would think a reverse loop can only turn a train one direction, and you need another reverse loop to go back to the first direction. Not necessarily (though 2 reverse loops would make it easier and more "elegant.") Here is an example of a tight and small HO layout with a cutoff track across the middle of the loop that forms a reverse loop. A train can pull out of the depot track at top and run counterclockwise. Running through the reversing cutoff makes it run clockwise and then it can run into either of the two branches that run off the table. Or it can return to the depot track and head in. How then does a train that ends up running loco first into the depot track get turned around to head out. It simply BACKS out of the depot track and BACKS around the reversing cutoff. Real trains do it all the time. So ONE reversing track can do double duty. A reversing cutoff on your layout would give you reason to have a turntable to turn locos. But it would also be a way to turn locos so that a turntable would not be absolutely necessary. Disclaimer/ personal whim: In 60 years of model railroading, I have bought 2 or 3 turntables for possible use, but never actually used them on any of my layouts.
Most of the turntables that I saw that were used were used to put the engines into a storage/service area. I saw one or two that were used to store cars. It makes sense that they would be used to turn an engine around if it were to be headed back in the direction it came. I am most interested in diesel engines and from what I have seen their wheelbase is generally shorter, so I figured that I would stick to them. I was most certainly interested in a switching track for the inner loop. As of now I'm doing up some drawings in XTrackCAD of how I want the basic design to be. I'll post that as soon as I'm done. Thank you again for all the information.
