Recently I toured some of the local hobby shops in San Diego. The first shop I went to sells RC and plastic kits. They are well stocked. (Great paint and tool selection) Place was packed. They had employees in the aisles asking if I need help finding anything. It gave me a good feeling that I was welcome, they wanted my business, and they would help. Next I went to a shop that had some trains, along with RC. Not many plastic kits. One guy on the phone. Another wandering the aisle, but not offering assistance. When I asked a question, both cane to show me where the item was. They walked over and personally showed me the item. Then I went to the mostly trains store. Two people were behind the counter. One was asleep, at least his eyes were closed. (Maybe he was dead. Hard to tell). The other was in a conversation with a "customer". He didn't acknowledge myself and my friend walking in the door. Never offered assistance. Kept talking to the "customer". (I say "Customer" because the guy wasn't buying anything. Just talking) When I asked him a question, he answered. I didn't feel he cared if I bought anything or not. So I didn't. The first crowded shop got my business. I bought paint. What is it about train shops that they can't offer friendly service? This is not an isolated incident. I have had this kind of treatment in other cities. I have also had the positive treatment from the plastic kit and RC shops in other cities. Do the train shops feel that just because they are there, that people will flock to their doors? They don't have to give service? I don't see plastic kit and RC shops going out of business like train shops. Trying to be careful not to violate TB policy by not mentioning names. Next time members are in shops, see what the attitudes are.
Pete, it's been my experience that "Train" shops are mostly operated by model railroad hobbyists. Whereas Hobby shops are operated by business people.
I have to agree with you Pete. The two big multi-hobby stores that I frequent here in north Phoenix are exactly how you described, and in the one train only store up here the owner and staff are completely indifferent or downright rude to customers. I suspected that perhaps I was not given much attention at the train only store because I am a "youngster" (47) and not part of his general clientel, but I also get the same attitude from this place when I talk to them anonymously on the phone. Here is an interesting difference though: When my wife has gone in to this train only store by herself the old codgers working there follow here around with their tongues hanging out and trip over eachother trying to be helpful. I do happen to have long hair myself these days, maybe I would get decent service if I shave really good and put on some lipstick and fake hooters when I go in there. "Ya wanna show me your flex track Big Boy?" I think Hank nailed it, the train only store is run by a "serious" MRR'r (and his pals) and the big hobby stores are run by businessmen.
I've seen both in both. Although I have to give a slight edge to the train store folks in the occasional grumpy department. I have been in a few where the owner did not make you feel welcome in the store. I will say that the last one I was in, a full train shop, the gentleman was more than helpful. And in the last of the stores that has a fair amount of scratch building supplies, and has been my source of Tungsten putty, once the old reprobate that was behind the counter was gone the younger folks vastly improved customer relations. There were times when I though he might have passed away and was just propped in the chair. But then there are the full service shops where I thought I had walked into a vampire or goth convention. One I was in earlier this week in my first search for some track had a young lady that resembled Mortic1a of the Adams family, just with multiple body piercings, and one weird dude roaming the isles. Didn't know if I was about the become the latest sacrifice to lord gott or not.
Huh. I've been into three hobby shops (2 RR specific and 1 multi hobby) in Portland and have felt welcome in all. One of the RR specific one made sure to help me over talking with the "regular." He actually stopped the guy from talking and told him he needed to check on his customer (me) to make sure he was being served. I also had good experiences at the shops in Denver. Eric
It isn't something new that train stores are operated as clubhouses for owners/employees and their pals. How many times have I heard someone say "I'm closing my train store because the internet has taken most of my business!" In most cases, the internet didn't take a thing, it simply stepped in when you were too busy talking to your buddies to take care of a customer.
I like going to a train store...if I'm shopping for trains. Full service hobby stores if I'm just looking for anything and everything. Its been my experience...that some people shouldnt be in bussiness period. It doesnt matter if its a train store...full hobby shop...or etailer. Some have no bussiness sense at all. That all being said...I have found people in some instances...brick and mortar or etailer that are a joy to deal with.
I've been in several stores of both sorts, both in terms of stock and of attitude. There used to be a hardware shop in Romsey - about 10 miles out of Southampton - where the owner had an interest in model trains, and stocked some UK and European outline. My boss was in there one day, talking to the owner about trains, and another fellow - worked for what was then British Rail - came in, in the middle of house painting and had run out of a colour. Then, the rep for a well-known model train company came in, including everyone in the conversation whether they wanted to be in it or not. Asked the BR worker if he had any project on at the moment - thinking he might be able to sell some bits, of course. Our hero says he's doing the approaches to London Waterloo Station. Rep asks what scale. "The big one". Rep asks if he means O. No, 4'8.5". They had to get the Rep a chair. They considered getting an ambulance! Great little shop. Sadly, the owner died and it closed, or I'd still be going there. Regards, Pete
To be fair the owner of the train only store I am referring to (the one on Deer Valley rd for those of you here in Phoenix) is pretty cordial. The guys he has working there are not, and no I don't think it is just me being a "youngster" of 47 with longer than average hair. From what I have seen they treat everyone pretty much the same, meaning complete indifference, as if it is a big inconvenience for them to give someone guidance on what they have in stock. As an example of this, a couple months ago I needed 30 more HO Atlas flex track, after I had already paid his retail price of $5.50 each for my first 10 sections previously. I looked at his website, and saw that I could order them for $4.50 and pick them up in the store with no shipping. I know these guys are barely getting by, and I want to give them a good shake, but 30 bucks is 30 bucks, right? I called up to see how this would work and to make sure that if I ordered them from online, I could actually pick them up the same day. The salesperson I talked to on the phone was completely rude to me, and said "The online store is a completely different company, and I don't know how long it will take to process the order. IF we have the quantity you ordered in stock when the order is finally processed, you can pick them up in the store. Otherwise they will be drop shipped" So I then ask, "30 pieces is a decent quantity, what kind of a price can you give me if I just come in and buy them, instead of going the online store route?" He says"We don't give discounts, it costs what it costs". I was getting a bit steamed at this point , but still wanted the track that day so I say" OK, fine. How many do you have right now so I can order them and then come pick them up? " "He says "About 20 or so". I calmly say "Well, could you please take a look and see how many are actually there. I need 30, but to make sure I can get them today I will order however many are there." He says "You'll have to call back later, I am busy right now". HUH!?!? I was completely disgusted and hung up. The largest crowd I have seen in that store was 3 customers. Me, my wife and one other person. What a load of baloney, I was pretty ticked off and ready to just go ahead and order the track I needed for $3.59 from one of those big online places. I really didn't want to wait a week though, so the next morning after my blood pressure went down I called back again and got the owner. COMPLETELY different experience. He immediately walked over and told me the exact number of flex he had there (was about 50, NOT 20) and said that with a decent quantity like that he would gladly match the online price, as he made more money selling them in the store because the online store was indeed run by another company and he would only get a small pittance from the sale. I went over and picked them up an hour later. He made a few bucks and I got my track the same day for a good price. Win-Win.
JB, your experience occurs quite often in small retail shops. The majority of the time the owner or manager will quietly take over, then have words with or fire that clerk after you have left. If the owner does not step in, the store will close in short order due to lack of customers, and the owner will not have a clue...sadly. In your phone example, a request to speak with the owner may have completed your eventual purchase without wasting the extra day. Then after the sale, as a courtesy, give the owner a simple explanation of the clerk's attitude and let him take whatever steps he wished. It's possible the owner was unaware of the clerk's behavior for many reasons...new employee, did this only when the owner was not nearby, etc.
I've never been in a full service train store but I enjoy going to my multi hobby hobby shop. The guys in there know me by name, I must be one of their few repeat customers.
JB... I used to stop by that store when they where on Bethany near I-17. The owner seemed like a nice enough guy. Then they moved 'up north' and I seldom get by that way. The one time I did...it was a Monday...they where closed :-( How is their inventory of N scale stuff ? Just incase I get another oppurtunity to get by there.
I've only been to one 'trains only' LHS - in Dallas TX area - and it's run by train people who are also very knowledgeable, friendly and helpful. My local LHS's here in WV are train stores/craft stores, with one also doing a lot of R/C business. Both are very helpful when you want them to be, and will leave you alone if you just want to browse. I HAVE witnessed the bad behavior described by the OP in a variety of retail stores, and really think that it's one of the reasons that online shopping is so popular, just generally speaking.
Down here in SoFla we still have a few left. Over the past few years, many downsized or flat went out of business, and blamed the internet, for which I disagree. The trains only hobby shops are downright condescending, treating veterans like newbies and newbies like pond scum, and that just doesn't bring in repeat business, yet the pine and ¤¤¤¤¤ about the economy. The full service hobby shops are trained to treat every customer as if valued, or like they are RC customers, but there are exceptions from time to time. The big hobby shops often hired the leftovers from the train shops and they bring their attitudes, like they are superior, yet unbathed, unshaven and poorly dressed for public customer service. One hobby shop has a solution, they assign these train guys to standing at the doors to watch bags and serve as closely monitored "greeters", and helpers, and if they don't cut the mustard, they are soon out on the street holding "Will work for food signs" and I have no compassion for these guys, model railroaders or not. There is one train store in Miami however, that treats its customers like kings, and even has special days when they serve free donuts, hot dogs, sodas, and hamburgers when personalities in the hobby visit. I have tried to talk to one very condescending owner one time as a friend, with soft voice and compassion about his attitude, citing circumstances, and he rationalizes every attitude with pointing at others for fault. Even if he is right, he is alone and it is today on a Saturday morning, and his store is quiet, "not even a mouse was stirring". Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
I visit the same store, which is actually in North Miami. Great prices and will order stuff/parts in, if they don't have it. One guy is kinda grumpy, but a good guy and very helpful. What amazes me, is there are others besides FloridaBoy on this forum, who also frequent that store, yet still buy via mail order.
Ken, I agree with your observations. Many small shop owners, regardless of product, appear to not understand that they must manage employees in addition to stock and finances, by setting rules of conduct and ensuring those rules are adhered to. Unfortunately, those shop owners who are no longer in business tried to be "Mr. Nice Guy", like the parent who never said "NO" to the child that later became a delinquent, or worse. Managing a business is a full-time, fully involved, uncompromising effort, and definitely not for the faint of heart.
I am not an N scaler, so all I can say is that they do have some, and it seems like more than the chain hobby stores have for sure. After having a serious bout of Scaleatosis Indecisivis I went from Sn42 (just not enough available) to vanilla HO (Seemed too bland- too much available?) and finally decided to go On30 and am happy with my scale choice. I already had my benchwork up a couple months ago, and of course had HO track, and I am OK with my location having small trees available for ties. The tie size issue is less than I thought it would be as Atlas ties scale out to about 12" in HO, so they are ~7" in O. Close enough to 9" for me, like I said the trees available in my desert layout location are small so they use smaller ties spaced a bit closer.:startled: He does have a fair amount of On30 there, but I would have to say it is about the same selection as the chain hobby stores here in town (HL and HB) and a bit more expensive. I am aiming to scratch build most everything anyways so it does not make much difference to me. I have some HO diesels that are in the process of becoming various critters. I plan on getting one Bachmann On30 loco, probably the Shay, and I might get it from him. One thing he does lack at that DV store is a good selection of scratch building supplies, and what he does have is pricey. Convenient as heck for me though as I live on the north fringe of town and he is the closest hobby store to me.
Is that shop in Mesa still around? Used to be a great shop with great people there by the corner of Country Club and Southern. Isn't that closer to you George? That is where I started, I just don't get over that way much when I am in Phoenix.
I think he is still open David. They have been around for almost 50 years. My son lives in San Tan Valley and we stay there when we go to the vallley. Both stores show they are open Saturdays so I am gonna have to plan a day of it. The one in Mesa is about 30 miles from my sons place. The one in Deer Valley is about another 30 miles north of that. While THE Wife is visiting the kids...I'll just make sure I have the CC and a full tank of gas...and tell em all I will be back by dinner...LOL. Have to see if one/both are still customer friendly ;-)
While doing that loop MTM ,you could include the one on the corner of Cypress st. and 16th st. , just north of I-10 and West of the 51 . I have yet to make it down there myself but I hear they have the best selection of scratchbuilding supplies in the valley. You could go to the Mesa one, then take the 101 up and over to 17 and go 1 mile north to Deer Valley (he is east of 17, across from DV airport in one of the commercial centers). On the west side of the airport on 19th ave. there is a good little restaurant/bar called the Flight Line. Great burgers and check the daily special. If you are in the mood for a fish dinner "The Q" is on 19th ave on the west side heading south before you get back to the 101. They have walleye and the whole deal there. From there you can head back down 17 to 10 and get off on 7th st.(north) and get to CSM , and after that you get back on the 10 and slide southeast until you hit the 202 or 60 and your on your way back to Waylon's hometown.
