This is not my original idea so I want to give proper credit to the originator. One of our advertising retailers offered a solution to the 2 FVM ES44's slow speed issue I bought. He didn't originate the idea either, it came from one of his other customers who was unhappy with the performance of his units. The fix..................take the motor our of a donor Kato locomotive and watch her scream. Now you can easily run the FV locomotive with Kato units without having to adjust the CVs on your Kato units down to a crawl. My donor was a first run SD-45. Never ran it much so the motor is like new. Hope this helps sombody out there. I may even buy another FV Unit just to get the NS paint scheme!
I do the opposite, because I like my trains to run at scale speed. If you want to swap motors, just let me know, I have a lot of just like new kato rocket motors!
Pie - I agree with you on the detail comparison, but that was not the issue here. I too replaced the FVM motors with KATO units that I pulled out of a couple of SD-40's. Do not know how much running time the motors had on them as I purchased from an individual. They run much better and even sound like a KATO. I like having the Higher speed motor "in reserve" for several reasons. One thing that I had to do when I exchanged the motors was to put the KATO motor into the FVM cradle. The two KATO cradles I had would not fit into the FVM frames. Possibly, I did not work at it hard enough. IMHO, you can not beat a KATO for "out of the box" performance, in nearly all cases. UPClARK - sounds like the retailer, I know from this area, that may have told you. Works well doesn't it? Carl
You modern guys get some fantastic stuff. I can't see an ES44AC heading up my string of 40' wood boxcars LOL. Nice lookin' pieces to be sure....
I thought about putting Kato motors in my FVM Gevos too sense I have some that look great but run like crap but I just can't see spending $35 each on Kato motors to add to a FVM unit that's already about $30 more then a Kato.
In my case, I pulled the motors out of two KATO SD-40's that I made into dummy units. Killed two birds with one stone. Had spare motors for the FVM Gevos and made the two SD-40's where they will run with dcc'ized units without spending more money for decoders. win, win Carl
I agree with Jim, the FVM loco runs right, the Kato's are much too fast, struggle with long trains, and won't speed match with anything else I own except some 70's land rockets. I can understand if most of your loco's are speed demon Kato's, replacing a few motors in the FVM's is the easier way to speed match them, but please get it right, the Kato loco's are the ones with the problem, not the FVM, Atlas, Athearn, LifeLike or many others that have scale speed motors. The Kato's are the odd ones out.
Well Tony I must respond to your post and as your Abraham Lincoln quote states I am going to "speak out and remove all doubt". I was just responding to the original thread author regarding something he did. I too did the same thing and it works well. To say any one brand is better than another is not what I was stating. I only noted that, for me, the FVM are too slow. I did not want to be accused of bashing Matt and his products but I must say that I have purchased three of the GEVO's, one from the first ever run, and have had a problem with each and every one of them. The last two (Ferromex & Ferrosur) ran so slowly that I doubt it if they could have been speed matched with another FVM unit. I tweaked cv's and even placed a new decoder in them and had same problem with each. Yes, I could have asked and I am sure Matt would have obliged in sending two new motors. However, I elected to go the KATO motor route because all I have are KATO's or brass and it was much easier to adjust two units rather than 15-20. BTW, the original unit I purchased 2-3 years ago is still sitting on my work bench completely disassembled. It has a problem in the trucks and derails too easily. As info, I placed KATO AC4400 trucks in the chasis and it runs well. I worked with Matt and never had a completion to the problem. So, please don't ding me for expressing my thoughts and experience in response to another persons thread. Carl
Carl, I didn't implicate any specific person. I was agreeing with Jim. I can understand why people would switch motors, I just feel that the motors that should be switched are the Kato motors as they are the oddball in the industry and the last holdout to switch to scale speed motors. Even Bachmann has scale speed motors in their equipment. I can understand why you switched, especially after hearing about the troubles you have had with motors. I will admit that my FVM Hiawatha seems to have a similar issue to what you seem to have gone through. I have even had Jim send me one of his high speed motors to put in it. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. My Gevo's however have been excellent out of the box.
Tony - no problems, I just wanted you to understand why I switched the two. I agree that it would be nice if all manufacturers used the same or at least the same speed motors. It would be much easier to run consists of locos from various manufacturers, with or without dcc. Carl
Gee have I missed a lively discussion. Quite frankly the fact of the matter is the FVM units that I purchased are both lemons. I have no bone with FVM. They're just doing to have become a little more consistent with performance before I drop another couple hundred on FVM products. I don't buy shelf queens. I've got plenty of brass taking up that space. Right now and for the last 3 hours, I have a FVM ES44AC (remotored) consisted with a C44-9W, both running at 35% throttle, at scale speed, pulling 20 cars powered by a NCE Power Cab. That never happened with the 2 ES44's with original motors. They were so bad they wouldn't even stay speed matched from day to day. I hope everone else's FV units run great and you are very happy with them but if they don't, there is an answer.
I for one hate the fact that Kato is the only one in the industry that still runs Turbo charged motors for they're models. When I run my other locos I like the fact that they all run nice and smooth at any speed but they run at scale speed at about 65 on my cab when I try to put my Katos up to 65 they run faster around my layout and would even fly off at a curve. I did change some of my Katos over to Atlas motors so I can match the speed and I'm happy with the results. I think Kato should change they're motors to scale speed also. Not trying to be negative but I'm not a fan of fast motors.
I am happy to say that of the 40 or so FVM Gevo's I have, I have had only one problem and that was a cold solder joint. I use DCC so there are no issues with speed matching with any manufacturer. I have IM F units running flawlessly with Kato F units, I have Atlas, Kato and FVM locomotives running flawlessly together too. I disagree with what Tony said earlier about Kato locomotive not able to pull long trains, I have had 3 Kato SD90s pull a 150 car train around a show layout for hours with no issues at all. And I routinely run 60-80 cars trains with SD40s and SD45s also with no issues at all. I can not say the same for other locomotives. One thing that needs to be kept in mind is that it is the torque of the motor that generates the pulling force, and that the Kato 5 pole motors are high torque motors. Unfortunately, the only problem that Kato needs to worry about is the gearing which will never happen.
I will eventually have a modest fleet of NS GEVOs, and I already have small fleet of Atlas/Kato GP30s and GP38s that wil be eligable for transplants if required. Strangely enough though, in all my years of N scale railroading, I never thought that I would say that 2 of my best performing locos are Life Like GP-60s. LOL! What a surprise.
Myself personally I would be more inclined to put FVM motors into my Kato units, the FVM units have a better low throttle consistency which I like then as you give more throttle they will eventually reach a prototypical speed so far so good.
I just ordered four Kato motors to put in my FMV gevos. I have some that run ok and some that are just awful! Being able to run them with my large fleet of modern Kato units will be a big plus! And yes I use DCC but you can only do so much with speed matching, especially when you have a lousy motor to start with.
UPClark, thanks for posting this topic. I had no idea that the motors were interchangeable. I gave my son a FVM GEVO that I bought used and it made a lot of noise. I can't blame it on FVM since the previous owner likely had something to do with the condition. I opened it up this morning and inspected the motor and the flywheel had a noticeable wobble. Not sure if it's a bent shaft or something else. Anyway, I had a Kato SD40-2 that was missing some driveline parts so I put that motor into the GEVO. Works great and my son is very happy. Thanks again!
