I'm currently designing an NTrak module that will move cars from the mountain line to the blue line, a change of 3 inches. My configuration is as follows: 5 WYE switches in the switchback 2 entrance switches to the switchback All switches are Peco Wood base with foam to build the levels I want to control all the switches at once from below. My dilemma is choosing the best way to accomplish this. My choices are obviously Manual or Powered. Is a manual system feasible for all 7 the switches? Any links available to see how this might be done? Would I have to control each side separately? For powered: 1 machine for all switches? 1 machine for each switch? Is there a machine that's instantaneous rather than slow that would work in this situation? Here's the plan
If you are using Peco switches, then manual is easy enough.....you just align the switches as you go up or down. For remote, you would need a machine for each switch, although you could get away with a single controler as long as you only move one train at a time. If all the switches move together (right and left) you would always get correct alignment, although you would get extra wear and tear, since every switch would cycle every time (6 if I counted right) vs only moving twice as the train actually moves through that switchback.
The Wabbit & Hare can only handle 1 Tortoise per output. I know as I fried a Wabbit ... and it was not tasty
You might not be able to use 1 switch machine for all the switches, but you can make a manual throw linkage that will make you at least be able to link 2 switches together off of one linkage. My dad did this with 2 passing sidings on his layout. You pull one lever and both switches throw simutaneously. One concern I would have though is with this being a N trak module, how are you going to be able to get a tail track long enough to move a sizeable train from the mainline to the mtn line? Ryan
I've seen this at work. Crossovers are a perfect spot. This design, thanks to limitations of NTrak, can move 3 40' cars at a time -- with the switcher I found.
Multiple switch backs are tricky enough without any limitations. Your design presupposes a grade of damn close to 5% (as I read it). Motive traction becomes an issue. Mine are 4% grades (no curves, 2% with) and that is no problem with geared logging locos. The 0-6-0 didn't cut the mustard. I recommend some testing with your chosen loco. Turn outs need to be mounted in plane on a flat surface (preferably level). Transitions to grade need to be smooth and fair (at a loss in length of elevation capability). With 30" run off, I can get 5 short log buggies & a Climax (HO scale) over the hump. This was no small challenge for this first time MRR builder . It took me months to build & get it working right.....worth doing. tho, as they are seldom seen and now I can understand why.lol
You don't need to limit yourself to a single 4ft module, you can use 2, 3, 4 etc. If it were me, I'd want a "longer" module, which would be a 3-4 module set that has to be set up together. Which would give you longer tails, but you're doing a longer set, you can just make it a grade instead of switch backs
It's 4.17% for the 12" transition center. 3.85% if I can get them to 13 inches. (see this page) And after testing the loco, it can handle 3 cars at 6+%, so the grade should not be a problem. That only makes sense - and was planned already. The grade has to start after the switch unless one can bend the switch ends -- not gonna happen P That's one reason I want to do it -- for the challenge. It's the switching itself that I'm trying to understand since I want all switches to change from one control. That's where I really need the clarity. Also, if I get it just right, an exceptionally great rolling car might even go down the module solo! That's why the legs rise 1/4" -- just in case. After looking at the layout of it, though, I don't think the grade will give the car enough momentum. Oh, and nice work on your switchback! It's the details (wood and spare ties strewn about) that really help sell it. Sure, If I wanted to lug around 4 modules, in a car that can barely carry 1 ;o) That's not really the issue for me. I want it to be a 4' module, mainly for the look of it and the challenge. We already have 8', 16', and 20' sets (and one that can grow from 16 to 24 and has 2 4' corners! 30' in all!) so we don't need another set that's going to be hard to place in a layout. And the 20' already had a single grade from Mtn to Blue, complete with crossovers to get the train to Yellow and Red.
"That's one reason I want to do it -- for the challenge. It's the switching itself that I'm trying to understand since I want all switches to change from one control. That's where I really need the clarity." If you use Wabbits or Hares, you can program a route that would have that would have a single address that change all the switches at once. I also think you may be able to find a stacked SPDT (center off) switch that could throw all 7 turnouts at the same time.
Are these turnouts to be Insulfrog or Electrofrog? Would make a difference how you power tracks... You didn't ask this, and I am butting in where not asked... But... I can never imagine a real railroad having any system to throw all the switchback turnouts at once. They would have someone on the ground throwing just the turnout they are using at the time. For a layout, I could imagine a WAND system with a track diagram with contacts for each RAMP track between ends. Such a system would allow touching the wand to the ramp track where you want to go next to go either up or down, and it would align TWO turnouts- the one your train is coming off of and the one at the other end it is going onto. You might do the same thing with a pushbutton on the diagram in the middle of each "ramp" section and nit would align the turnouts at both ends of that section. Shouldn't be too hard to wire but I'm not going to draw it out here...
Quote: "Oh, and nice work on your switchback! It's the details (wood and spare ties strewn about) that really help sell it." Thanks but in that pic there is is maybe 10% of the junk of the prototypical logging RR. I have a few small areas (maybe 2 feet out of about 200 feet) that are almost as "junked up" as necessary.....at that, I'm none too proud of it. As a fella told me "Modeling chaos and making it believable is very difficult".....I can't agree more. Caspia (as received) as downed tree limbs work...that is but one ingredient out of about 30.hboy:
Insulfrog And I can never imagine a real railroad connecting their tracks to DC or DCC power. Or having a huge 40 scale ft finger come out of the heavens to throw a switch. And I'm fresh out of 3/4 inch live people - they're on backorder. Since this is modelling, not reality, I can imagine all kinds of things that make sense in the modeling world that bends reality. It's a good idea. Problem I see is the 3-way switch. (I'm not an electrical genius. Hook it to a computer and I'm your man) Indicate the first 'ramp' and switch 1 and 2 align. Second ramp aligns 2 and 3. So switch 2 has to change from two separate signals. When next you indicate 'ramp' 1, either a) switch 1 changes solo b) switch 2 changes solo c) both switches change d) neither switch changes I see the wiring for that much more difficult than changing all switches to the proper state from one single indicator -- toggle, pushbutton, or pull knob.
I'll have to get serious about TO control fairly soon. I've been casually searching the net a for push/pull cable system for several months. An outfit in Australia has such a set up but their web site in nearly incomprehensible.....the few pictures make it look like a viable alternative but it's very short on specifics. I'd need long (10-15 feet) sheathed cables and no mention on the site of availability or prices. Tho I like the concept, Tortoise units are looking better.
Remote control shops will have those cables. Or bike shops. If you don't need curves, or only slight curves, brass tubing with piano wire. 10-15 feet might be a stretch though.
I have a perminent SB HO MRR on open grid bench in an apartment . Sorry no pics.. The way my line ascends/descends is done with one switch in midway up/down. But I still gain altitude needed by main track in lower front of bench running to east end where it makes a 190ish deg left turn at about 27" radius and begins ascent in back going now west..track then bends inward and travels about 6 feet while rising about 2.5"..Here it comes to the main switch in road; the SB ' tail(or drill) track'..Train goes thru it and when last car clears it switch is thrown and train reverses direction angling back outward and makes 2nd loop about 180deg up and over lower 1st loop continuing upward on this curved grade and runs along back wall westward..There's a holding yard and engine house in midway area which uses the SB tail track as a drill track when pulling out or pushing in a string (usually 8 or less because it's the most cars, engine and caboose the tail track can fit ) of cars..Lower front track runs westward to the live interchange past a 90deg curve left (south). Upper track runs (physically)west (mentally east) also, along back wall and also turns left going over lower onto a peninsula for main industry, large coal mine..There's alot more secondary track but this is the main line scheme..I tell you all this because you could utilize the 2-3 modules and make your SB this way, gain the needed altitude and perform mountain climbing duties with ONE switch (OK,turnout) instead of what, 4-5 you say..To me running my SB RR is difficult enough as it is..and that's with one SB switch and tail to perform one direction reversal per run down from mine and one reversal up from live interchange ..It can get very draining going through these moves alone (though I love the logistics challenge)... But, with 4-5, ugh !! You could employ the 3 modules to hook up something like this winding up with allot less steep grades by looping up and over this way with longer approaches to tail track.
