Checking my math.

John Moore Mar 28, 2013

  1. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    I'm looking for a rise of 18 inches in a total run of at least 288 inches. What do you folks come up with on percent of grade? Not too sure of my old math and calculator in the layout planning.
     
  2. tpwillie

    tpwillie TrainBoard Member

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    It figures out to be a grade of 6.25%. Must be for a logging road.
     
  3. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yep, 6.25%.
     
  4. Wrath0fWotan

    Wrath0fWotan E-Mail Bounces

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    Third time's a charm - 6.25%. Hope it's not a helix!;)
     
  5. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Exactly 6.25%. Steep, even for many logging operations.
     
  6. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Doing the math on the calculator and hit the percent button and got a shade over 2% which is why I'm getting a 2nd opinion.
     
  7. Wrath0fWotan

    Wrath0fWotan E-Mail Bounces

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    John, always divide the BIG number into the little number, then multiply by 100 - I used to get mixed on this a lot!:cute:​ On the calculator it would be 18/288 * 100 = 6.25.
     
  8. Stourbridge Lion

    Stourbridge Lion TrainBoard Supporter

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    (Rise / Run) * 100 = Grade Percentage

    ( 18 / 288 ) * 100 = 6.25
     
  9. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yup came up with the same thing when I finally got my mind to working. Did some quick creative track re-alignment and squeezed out 420 inches and dropped 1 inch in rise and now looking at the shade over 4%. Did some more quick route mods and now have my grade down to a 3.5 %. Planned on double headed operations anyway and that isn't enough then just another excuse to buy another small 2-8-0 or a 4-4-0.
     
  10. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    John, just remember the old engineering adage...If at first you DO succeed, try to hide your astonishment. :startled:
     
  11. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Been there before more times than I can remember. Good thing all this is on paper. Move three tracks, a turntable and relocate the takeoff for the branch further back and I gain yet another few more feet. Just need to decide how much vertical space I need to reach into, at this time a 27 inch deep, staging area when seated. I can probably reduce the depth by another 2 to 3 inches. And then the thought has occurred to have a slight grade up out of staging at 1% or less.
     
  12. TrCO

    TrCO TrainBoard Member

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    I've never heard that before, but rest assured, I am currently cracking up-it's fantastic
     
  13. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks all for the help jogging my brain. I ended up redrawing the plan and doing some rerouting, but I saved the turntable and probably came out ahead this time. I've got the branch line grade down to 2.6% and I may be able to get it just a tad lower, but not by much. When I finish up the design I will have well over 48 feet of branch line run all single track until I figure out where to tuck at least one or two passing sidings. I also managed to improve my mainline now having about 50 feet of mainline running. Tomorrow I hope to get busy and design the upper level mining, quarrying, and logging areas, and rework the harbor trackage since that expanded some.
     
  14. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    Been an engineer a long time, never heard that one! :)

    Alas, the trouble with grades, there just is never enough length..... How wide is the are you have to work with? If it is wide enough, you could always switch it back on itself so you go from point a to b, then back b to a and now from a back to b

    So at 3 trips of 288 inches you are down to 2.08333% grade, 3 trips of 420 give you 1.43% (rounded up).
     
  15. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Working on a design that is round the room along the walls with no area deeper than a 30 inch reach in and at least 75% under that maximum. My prototype had a branch that was close or at 2% for a distance, and my testing has found that the locos that will operate there can perform at 4% max. if used double headed which I planned for. Mainline is all level grade with continuous running on single track. Each end has an upper level above the mainline that is the branch operating areas.

    My goal has been to access the branch and keep the grade as close to 2% as possible. The determining factor has been a hidden yard and staging area on the main at one end which has a run around track for the continuous running and the terminus of the branch area above that. Under that staging will be a slide out workbench. So I have been playing with what type of vertical space I need to access the mainline yard when seated in a chair and the level is even with about mid chest level. And again the maximum reach in distance is limited to 30 inches or below and currently I have that down to 28 inches in the yard area. Since the yard is only going to be used to stage trains to run through the layout, and the switches will be all powered in that area, the only need to get in that area will be to set up trains for the next running session and to store them when not running.

    The layout area is being designed in a 10.5 by 11 foot area which gives about 50 feet or over of mainline run. The branch is a point to point run. I've used modeler's license to move the take off for the branch to almost at the yard/staging location which has gained running footage and it is a steady climb from there as it goes to the other side of the layout to access the first raised upper level area. From there it loops back and again climbing at the back of the layout it elevates again until it reaches a terminus above the yard/staging area for the last level of the branch. Thus I have managed to get a total of 50 feet of branch line run, which depending on how high I set the area over the staging will determine my % of grade. So right now I am looking at as low as 2.16% to as high as 2.66% grades, all within working limits for me. With a slight redesign I can get down to 1.9% if I relocated the branch takeoff in the staging area.

    I should probably state that this is a steam era layout and that the branch is for logging, mining, and quarrying. Thus the testing of locos on some 8.5 inch radius. The possible biggest loco on the mainline will be a E-7 although mostly 4 axle diesel and some steam that is 8 drivered. The branch is home to the geared locos and some small rod driven steam. The biggest there will be the small drivered Micro Ace 2-6-6-0 all of which I have found will operate nicely on 8.5 inch radius.
     

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