n scale track soldering questions

Before I go and make a costly boo boo while soldering track sections together, I thought I would post here and get some feed back. So...

Question 1: How hot does the soldering gun need to be... I just bought one that heats at 750 degrees and is 25 watts. Before opening it, will it do the job?

Question 2: I have been told not to solder every joint because of expansion issues due to temperature changes. How far between soldering? Every other track? Same case with flex track? And, if that is the case, how far should the gaps be between the rail ends to allow for such expansion?

Question 3: Should you solder switch ends in place? I was thinking no in case of removal down the road, but I definitely don't want any issues around the switches.

Question 4: Should flex track be soldered to the next piece while still straight, then bent for whatever radius is needed?

Question 5: Glue track down then solder? Or solder sections then glue? Sorry, I know that one sounds a little stupid.

Question 6: The last question leads me to this though not related to soldering. To glue the track to the road bed I have Elmer's Glue All and/or Liquid Nails for projects. Which do you think would be better?

Thanks a million guys!

Dean

 

Temperature range between 60F and 80F at most. The layout is in a house with A/C, but that room isn't the best as it was an add on room. Humidity out there is not likely to be that high because we run the heat or air all the time for the most part.

 

Look down through the box below, "Similar Threads", you will most likely find your answers.

Soldering is not a real big deal and is easy to learn. I'ma with Boxcab on this one. Let experience be your teacher and give it a whirl.

I use the Radio Shack, soldering irons while I have friends that use the soldering iron you've mentioned. I have one as well. The key is to have the solder and metal you are soldering heated to the same temperature. You don't want a cold solder joint, as this will pop loose at a later date. Tip of the day would be.... When the solder set's up shiny you should be good. Just don't heat it up so the plastic spike heads and railroad ties melt away.

Give it a go and see what you can learn. Uhhh, don't be soldering your fingers together.

With regard to the track laying questions. I use a technique where I solder the track as I lay it down. I prefer to work with Atlas Flex track code 80 or code 55. I offset the rail joints 2 to3 inches, so they are never directly across from each other. I don't remove the ties preferring instead to cut with a Zona Saw or Razor saw the spike heads off. Others, will lay out the track straight and solder it, before they bend it and lay it. I don't recommend that. You can get kinks at the rail joint. Remember, the weakest point on your track is the rail joiner. If you're track is going to go out of alignment and cause derailments, that's where you'll find it.

Go play a bit and see what skills you can master. Don't be afraid to make a mistake.

 

As to question #3, I do not solder switches in place for the following reasons:

1. Too many times I have changed my mind as where I want the switch;
2. The small gap works as the needed expansion gap;
3. Switches cost a lot more the a section of track.

I have soldered feeders to switches when needed.

Gary

 

Well, went and practiced on some older track pieces tonight, at first I felt like a 3 year old with a new crayon... lol, and at first the results were about the same! I had two types of solder, a 98% tin/2% silver solder that needed flux... didn't do very well for me. The other came with the soldering iron and it didn't say what the material was, but it worked much much better. It sort of reminded me of a thick aluminum in consistency. Anyway, track is not as hard as feeder wires... haha. I will keep practicing. I read about a rosin core solder that you don't add flux to and it looks like it might be way better than what I have. Gonna get some tomorrow.

 

Question 6: use latex adhesive caulk - clear. Just a thin coat will keep your track in place very well

 

Less expensive to use, less messy, holds well and resists water when ballasting: Yellow Carpenter's glue. Sets up in a half hour. Don't use it if you are one of those masochists that wants to remove rail because of poor planning or to start a new layout every other year. You will never get it up.

Bill Pearce

 

I solder a lot of track. It's all code 55 and 40, and I use a 35 watt Archer (Radio Shack) iron with a wedge tip when I am not using my 250W American Beauty Resistance Solderer. I've had it for decades. I also use solder and flux from H&N Electronics here: http://www.ccis.com/home/hn/ for all of my track work as well as soldering feeders to the bottoms of my rails between ties.

If you buy and use the SUPERSAFE #30 flux (gel), and the 96/4 Tin/Silver solder, along with the lead-free tip tinner, your soldering will be vastly improved from anything you can buy at The Shack, locally at your electronics supply store, The Home Depot, or Lowes.

If you decide to go this route, and I guarantee you will not regret it...ever..., you should also get a couple of dispenser bottles for your flux.

No matter what anybody else says, the SUPERSAFE #30 flux is exponentially better for track work than any other flux. Used along with H&N 96/4 lead free solder is a combination that you will not beat with any other products...period.

Many modelers have discovered this stuff, and use it exclusively.

Here are a few soldering principles you need to know. (1) You need to apply heat fast and locally. Too weak a soldering iron will let the heat dissipate because it takes longer for it to heat up than with a higher wattage iron. A 25 watt iron is borderline for soldering rails, especially if the rails you're soldering are code 80. If you are melting ties, your iron is too cool.

(2) Keep your tip clean. Buy a soldering station that includes a sponge for you to dampen and clean your tip with. A "clean" tip also means a tip that is tinned. If your tip is dark, it needs both cleaning and tinning. Always check your tip, then clean and tin it if it needs it, even if that's for every joint you solder.

(3) Use SUPERSAFE #30 flux on your solder joints. All of a sudden, you'll be an expert solderer. I'm not joking.

(4) Just use enough solder to wet the joint. Creating a big blob is usually not what you want, and usually indicates your iron is not hot enough. Hot solder flows easily when the metal you're soldering is clean and properly fluxed...it doesn't blob.

(5) If you do not want solder to go someplace, like onto an adjacent rail if you happen to be soldering a PCB turnout throwbar on to your turnout's closure points, you can create a barrier with a sharp #2 pencil by drawing a line, over which solder will not travel. A thick line is best.

I use the SUPERSAFE flux, solder and tip tinner for all my metal soldering, from super detailing brass engines, scratch building brass signal bridges to hand laying all of my many PCB turnouts. I also use other solders with lower and higher melting temperatures when fabricating complex metal structures.

You are asking for problems if you use any rosin or acid based flux...even if you thoroughly wash and neutralize the finished joint. Use SUPERSAFE #30 and you won't have to worry about washing/neutralizing your solder joints.

As to the expansion joints that should be included in your track attachment scheme. I have expansion joints about every six feet because my layout is modular and each module is generally 6 feet long. The way to include expansion joints is to simply not solder (but use rail joiners) your rail every six feet or so. Stagger the joints and use a .020" Styrene spacer to establish a "space".

Do not use rail joiners to carry electrical current. Although joiners WILL carry current, it is good practice to have a soldered feeder on every single piece of rail, so that your electrical continuity does not depend too much on either the rails or joiners carrying current.

I always glue my turnouts down, but...I make all of my turnouts, and I am 99% sure of my track plan before I start socking down track. I do not build track, scenery or any other part of my layout with the idea I'm going to tear it up soon and re-use the components. That said, I have had to change track alignments a bit to accommodate new modular standards, and even though I use runny and gap filling CA to sock my track to my cork roadbed, then ballast it using real Elmer's Glue All as ballast glue, water and fingernail polish remover allow me to take my track and turnouts up. In the meantime, they are socked down solid which makes 'em operate much more reliably over the years.

Hope this assists you in your soldering efforts!

Cheers!
Bob Gilmore

 

I agree. Also the track is easily removed. Liquid nails is much more rigid, even the projects one, and will be more difficult to deal with.

I would use a little liquid flux with silver solder. The flux will cause the solder to flow easily and the silver solder without rosin core flux will be easier to work with.

Leave a gap every 4-5 feet, then again your layout is in a controlled environment, so you may get away with longer runs. Mine is in the garage, and three or four feet of track can expand into a turnout causing it to go out of gauge. That said I soldered my N scale Peco code 80 turnouts at all points in 2004 and have had a few go out of gauge due to expansion. I simply added a couple feeder wires and cut a gap and the issues went away. I have replaced a couple curved turnouts with straight ones as they were problematic to begin with, but other than that all are good to go. I do like the rolling reliability of soldering all the turnout rails, but I am not sure if I would do it again.

 

Well, you asked for opinions...... lol..

OK, I'm an electrician who usually does some soldering (eg, PCB repair, wiring, plugs/connectors etc) on a daily basis in my job..

I use only 60/40 (lead/tin) Rosin core solder for all my electrical soldering needs.. The only thing that varies is the size (diameter) of the solder used, with 1.6 - 2mm being my choice for PCB (and track) work and 2mm - 2.5mm for wiring and connectors.. 60/40 solder has the lowest melting point making it easy to use, and lessens the risk of melting track ties due to excessive heat..

I NEVER use an external flux... NEVER... If you need to use an additional flux, (other than the rosin flux in the solder) then either your iron (or what you are soldering) is not hot enough, or the items you are trying to solder are not CLEAN.. Soap free steel wool and/or a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol useful for cleaning..

I use a cheap 25Watt Weller iron with a chisel tip for my trackwork... (Pointed tips are useless)

When you wish to solder something, turn the soldering iron on, and allow plenty of time for it to heat up.. I usually tell people to turn on their iron, and then go make a cup of coffee or tea, and drink some of it before starting work.. A good indicator that the iron is hot, is to touch the solder to the tip, and smoke should flow from the tip as the flux burns away..

A damp dish sponge or cotton cloth (rag) is useful for cleaning the tip..

Before you attempt to solder anything, ensure the iron is hot, and clean the tip on the damp sponge.. Then wet the tip of the soldering iron by touching the solder to the tip, and allowing the solder to coat, and pool slightly on the tip (wetting the tip allows for better heat transfer between the soldering iron, and the metal to be soldered..) Have the track joined in place, and hold the soldering irons tip onto the underside of the rail joiner, on the inside of the rails.. Gently run the solder on the outside edge of the rail, just above rail joiner, and after a second or two, the solder will melt and flow into the joiner making a successful joint.. Hold the iron in place for 1 second after the solder flows, then remove the iron, and allow the track to cool.. All up, the solder joint should take about 5 seconds to make.. When you finish the joint, clean and wet the tip again, and do the next joint..

Clean off any flux residue with a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol or methylated spirits..

As with everything, practice makes perfect..

Goodluck..

Mark..

 

Thanks guys, very helpful information. I plan to practice a little more... and may try some of the different solder you mentioned. I doubt I will actually be soldering much "real" track before this weekend so that gives me a few days to practice. I'll let y'all know how it goes.. or doesn't go... haha.

Dean

 

I completely agree with the practice part. Get some pieces of flex track to sacrifice and practice, practice, practice. My track soldering skills are decent now because I experimented with different techniques and found what worked best for me. You have already completed the most important first step of asking for (and receiving) advice on TrainBoard. Hard to go wrong starting off that way.

Jamie

 

Grab some pieces of used code 80 sectional track and put a few on a slab of foam. Practice your soldering on that. If you mess up, you still don't get to ruin your layout.

 

Hi everyone! This is my first post here. I recently dug my N scale trains out of the attic. I haven't messed with them since the early 80s. I could buy an Atlas boxcar for about $3.00 back then. My boxes still have the stickers on them. Anyway, more to the point of this thread. I'm building an Inglenook Siding layout to play with. I was thinking about soldering the rails. I just wanted to say THANKS! to everyone that has given suggestions. I've been soldering since I was about 7 or 8, and started out on PCBs. My dad used to design PCBs and he taught me to solder. So, I think I've got the skills to do it, now I need to practice a little. I will probably have to buy a hotter iron. I have no idea what the amps are on mine. It is read, long and thin, and it does have a point, and I don't have any extra tips for it. I've also got a Snap On butane iron with a variety of tips, but it's been acting up lately. Time to track (pun intended) down a dealer and get it fixed.

Am I right that you nail down your track, then solder it? Since my layout is only 3' long it sounds like I don't need to leave expansion joints.

Thanks!
Don,
PS: I'm gonna have to buy some solder too.

 

Adhesive caulk is the wonder-adhesive for model railroading! I use it for everything from track to roadbed to scenery to planting figures to glueing car/container weights.

 

My 2 cents;

Question 3: Should you solder switch ends in place? I was thinking no in case of removal down the road, but I definitely don't want any issues around the switches.

I will be the first to admit that I can't solder very well, hence I won't solder any track to a turnout because I know I will melt the adjacent ties and most likely have to throw away the turnout, yikes!. Having said that, I have never had an electrical issue with the unsoldered joint where a turnout meets up with a peice of flextrack.

Question 4: Should flex track be soldered to the next piece while still straight, then bent for whatever radius is needed?

I bend the two pieces of track to the approximately the curve that I want on the layout inorder to find the where I want to cut the rails for the joint. I also make sure that the two joints are offset. Then I straighten the two pieces and then solder the 2 joints.

Question 5: Glue track down then solder? Or solder sections then glue? Sorry, I know that one sounds a little stupid.

I solder the track together then "glue" down the track.

Question 6: The last question leads me to this though not related to soldering. To glue the track to the road bed I have Elmer's Glue All and/or Liquid Nails for projects. Which do you think would be better?

After many times of "remodeling" my layout, I have found that caulk is pretty easy to remove. I have seen folks who apply a small bead of caulk along the whole length of track but I have found that you don't really need to put that much caulk on the roadbed. I place a spot of caulk about every 3 to 4 inches. I use Peco C55 which is pretty stiff so I can get away with this method. I have started to use CA on spurs and so far so good.

These are my methods, but I don't claim to be an expert in the field of laying track by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I read all the responses and maybe I missed it but the very most important thing to remember about soldering is this: Solder and dirt don't mix. Solder needs a clean surface free of tarnish, oils, dirt, etc to work. So clean the area you are going to solder. Get an emory board, small file or fine sand paper and clean where you want to solder. Wipe it down with rubbing alcohol. Also when attaching feeder wires solder them to the underside of the rail to make them less visible. Also it helps when soldering feeder wires to tin the rail and the wires (coat with solder) then when you connect them all you need do is add heat to melt the solder that is already there. This is a good way to check if each is really clean.