Port Scene Questions

I posted this in my thread in the Layout Plan Discussion (http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?147227-New-Project-The-Bay-Line) but there has been no response so I thought maybe I might ask it here.

I am going to model the Bay Line here in Panama City (compressed version with some liberties taken). As the planning phase is drawing to a close with benchwork construction to start in a couple of weeks, I have some questions regarding the port scene. I would like to address those now rather than wait until the last minute. I would like to drawn upon the experience of some of you.

1. How deep do you make the port? The port here has a depth of 36' feet for the channel and berths. If my calculations are correct that is about 2.7". I can't get anything larger than 3/4" foamular at the big box stores so I will sandwich 2 of those for 1 1/2" total. I'm not one to worry too much about rivet counting but I do want it to look reasonable since it is a scene that is first noticed when walking into the room.

2. I will be placing a container ship at the port and it will only be a water line model. Again I'm not too concerned about how accurate it is but needs to be realistic. Again my calculations are, even for a 210 scale foot vessel, that this is about 15 3/4" long. Do you sink it into the water or cut out the water pour so it can be lifted in and out if needed?

3. What best works for you for the color of the water?

Okay, that's a start. I'm sure there are going to be more questions but I will address those when construction begins. Once that starts I will move my discussion from the layout planning discussion to here so more can follow the progress. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

I wouldn't worry about the depth of the harbor. If you use a waterline model, it doesn't matter what is below the waterline. A ship of 210' length isn't going to have much draught--depth below waterline--perhaps 20 feet max, usually less. I just use plywood for a base for harbors, paint it black, and use about 1/8"-3/16" of clear resin. If you're using full-hull models, and don't want to cut off the bottom, then you will have to make a hollow to "hide" the draught.

I'm building considerably larger freighters of 350'-550', which may have a draught of 30'-35'--but it doesn't matter since they are waterline!

 

Thanks Pete, that helps a lot.

 

Many eons ago I did some world traveling, curtesy of Uncle Sam, and saw a few harbors in different places. For the most part the harbors I observed were murky to discribe it best with a few exceptions like Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam and others. Must of the harbors I've seen in the US fit the former discription rather than the latter. As far as the vessels in the harbor most of mine are or will be waterline models with only two exceptions. Still I have found that the cast water tends to adhere rather strongly to things thus I am messing with the idea of using a saran wrap on the hull for when I would do the final thin pour to prevent the vessel from being locked in, something I have yet to experiment with though should work. If the water pour wants to adhere to the saran then no issue since a sharp single edge razor can trim the excess above the waterline and water efects for ripples and waves can hide any possible line. Will the water casting material melt the saran? That I don't know hence the test with a small plastic box, wrapped in saran or cling wrap, sunk in a bigger box where I can try my test pour.

But since my harbor scene is going to be designed to be on the front and foremost part of the layout, like most are, then I feel that at some point, if MR. Murphy has his way, I'll need to repair a mast or some rigging. Thus the need to take something off the layout and go to the workbench with it.

 

I don't know if this will help - this is a card model of a container ship in 1:87 scale - I imagine it could be put through a photocopier and reduced - the site is in german and the container vessel is #7003. The company is in Berlin, Germany and the price is 17.90 Euros. (as given in "Angebotsliste") . The ordering address, telephone number and website will be found in "Impressum" http://www.mdk-verlag.de/schiffe2.htm scroll down the page

 

John,

Plastic wrap may be too thin. I haven't tried it in this type of application, but where I have used it to separate parts when casting, it hasn't worked well. I suspect the resin will grab the wrap so that it will be impossible to remove, which is not a real problem here, as you can trim it back. The real problem may be that the friction fit is so tight you won't be able to get the hull out just because of the friction. If your tests work, then go with it. If not, try a thicker wrap--heavy-duty wrap, or a few layers. You may get a few crinkles at the waterline, but that will actually look OK. If that doesn't work, try a silicon mold release on your test object.

Most of my bigger ships just rested on the surface. I did implant a few smaller ones, but probably by only 1/32" or less, and they were not difficult to wiggle loose. That damaged the paint a little, but it was not hard to touch up.

 

Charles,

I've also found flat black paint, when covered by glossy "water", works best for larger harbors. The water at the dock has to be deep enough for the ships, so it's uniformly black. Surface reflection from the sky or background accounts for any colors. Shading the bottom with paints works great for shallow rivers and ponds, but in harbors you're looking for surface effects like waves or chop or oil spills, and these can often be achieved by "roiling" the resins as they set rather than painting them.

The water doesn't have to be all that glossy either. You will be looking at it from a fairly low angle, especially when photographing it, and I've found semi-gloss or even satin looks most realistic--gloss is like a mirror, even when roiled.

John,

I never broke off many things, although I did need warning signs to protect visitors from eye damage. I even gave out safety glasses. After I stabbed my chin on one mast and realized it could have been my eye, I installed crossbeams or rounded radar domes on the highest masts.

 

Or, try vasiline as a mold release. there are mold releases avail for many casting mediums that are not too expensive and easy to remove/clean off once the casting is done. chek these out as well. I doubt the RTV type water will hurt the plastic wrap and unless the set temp of your water goes up over 400 degrees. Again a small test will tell !
Paul

 

Thanks everyone, some good information here. I'm going to try and get up close to the port and take some pictures. Don't know how successful I will be since U.S. Customs and Border Patrol not to mention Homeland Security are at the port.:question:

 

Knowing that this stuff does create some fairly good heat as it cures, and of course there is expansion. However I have had some small amount of shrinkage occur on occasion so upon cooling it should be able to pop out. However the chemical reaction to the plastic wrap is the unknown. I've never had the casting water react with any of my paints but the saran or cling wrap is a different thing. As long as it lets the hull be free I don't care if it has to stay since as said before a sharp single edge razor takes care of that. I would be just a little leery of the vasoline or mold release since I don't know what differences there may be in the water casting materials and the casting resins for models and the last thing I need is a synergistic reaction or small scale thermonuclear mushroom cloud on my workbench.

 

I'd stay away from vasoline and, on second thought, mold release. I doubt you'd have an endothermic reaction, but either material could contaminate the water casting material so that it would not cure. I've just had the water material push in on the sunken object so hard it was difficult to remove. Sort of like trying to undo a press-fit.

 

Maybe Talc would work as a release ?????...Mike

 

If you have either Google earth or Google maps you can probably get a fairly good view if you are talking about the port facility off Audbon Island. Just looked at it and if that is it, it is a gated access, and fenced secure facility. Even the railroad tracks are gated. Couldn't see any Rotweilers though or big Shepards.

 

Not worried about getting in the port, thought of trying to get some good pictures of the water. There are some boat slips next to the port that should allow me access to get close enough for water pictures.