John wrote: ""That looks like it could be a solution to get the track re-aligned, but the rails need to be allowed to float (open and close). Otherwise you may end up with a kink somewhere else next year along the same section of track."" The one example I used earlier where the rail literally broke the plastic spike heads, blowing out, with heat gaps 12 inches or so on both sides. I suspect that's precisely what happened. I had to much glue in place and the track didn't have anywhere to slide. Taking the path of weakest resistance. To point to past experience. The rail can still expand and move whether you use Al's CYA procdedure or the Rick Approved CYA procedure. As the joint ages, the metal rail will break loose and slide. Over the years I've used a number of adhesives and in most cases the rail broke loose sliding into the open gaps. I've seen the rails literally close the gap and cause me problems with current crossing from one Cab to the other. To prevent this from happening , I do us a drop of GFCA (Gap Filling Cyanoacrylate) in between the two rails in the heat gap, to keep it from closing. Today, my heat gap's are wider then ever and I tend to hold my breath as the trains crossover them. So far, no derailments. Just wait till winter get's here. Tony, feel free to use this whole thread as an example of what can happen to layouts...heat kinks.
On my layout I have some ballasted track and instead of kinking the turnouts end up taking the brunt of the pressure just as Rick described earlier. Is what happens on my layout is the stock rail does not have anything to hold it on the inside so the gauge gets squeezed. The result is that cars get pushed up and out, but it looks like a point is picked.
I have my N scale layout downstairs in the 'train room' where it is an almost constant 60F most year round and (was) kid proof! I run standard Peco 80 code track, not my first choice, but that is all I can get locally. One afternoon I plugged in the hoover to clean up before an operating session but was called away before I actually used it. I returned 24 hours later and made the grim discovery that I had not powered the hoover at all, but instead the upright heater stored under the train layout....and it was set on 'high'. Without any further check though, (heat kinks just never happen!!!) a UP mixed merchandise headed out east of the holding yard, dissappeared round the back and 'crunch' derailment!!! The soldered track had buckled into 4 'S' bends and the ballast had broken up into large lumps, derailed the train and was all pushed out with the track. The track was 'easy' to replace, this time, the track is unsoldered and heat gaps included, after all, my disasters come in three's. The worse part was reballasting!
Rick, that shouldn't be enough to cause any problems. It also shouldn't be enough that you felt it with your arm on the track. If you really felt a mild electrical shock with your arm either the circumstances were different, like the power pack being on or there may be an intermittent problem with the connections inside the soldering iron. A couple suggestions for the future: 1) Disconnect all the power packs and DCC boosters before soldering any track. Even with the units turned off there may be an electrical path back to ground through the power supply. You want what you're soldering to be floating electrically. That way if the soldering iron does have a voltage on it the object being soldered will be at the same potential as the iron. 2) If you ever notice an electrical "tingle" when you are working with something you think isn't powered, try to figure out what''s wrong right then. If something is a little flaky it's easier to find it when it's occurring. Good luck with straightening your track.
I have no heat or air in my upstairs train room precisely to avoid stuff like this.I also have big dogs,and although they're okay in the train room when I'm there,to keep them out,and still keep the room heated/cooled,I used a hook type lock on the door,but put in in so when I hook it,it keeps the door open about 4 inches,enough to keep the pooches out,but let heated/cooled air in.My entire RR,12X12,is completely soldered and ballasted,never had a problem yet.On my last one at my old house,same thing,no joints,had a half door on the room,never had an expansion problem with either RR in 20+ years.. And,oh yeah,speaking of Hoover..Got rid of my pool last year.The vacuum had a 30 foot hose.I have a nice big old canister vacuum I use to clean the train room and suck up the styrofoam as I work on the scenery.I stuck that hose on the vacuum and put the vacuum in the closet,I can run the hose anywhere in the train room,and it's nice and quiet and out of the way while I work..
Lou If you had a 20 deg F temperature swing there a straight 6 foot section of NS flex would only expand/contract less than a third of a millimeter, hardly noticeable. On curved sections it would probably expand/contract the radius of the curve, again hardly noticeable. Al
Mark, The power pack was on and the tingle or bite I felt, occurred while I was soldering in a wire drop. Later while crouching under the table, testing for polarity, I had the power pack on...again. I then tested for polarity and proceeded to wire up and solder to a DPDT. This is when I heard poping sounds coming from the deck above me where the hidden staging yard is. You need to know I had power routed to four of the tracks through the DPDT's where I later discovered the heat kinks. I should've turned off the transformer when soldering but...here we go. With my health condition and the fact my blood sugar was going south, I wanted the project done. It all sounds like, then my cat or dog ate my homework, doesn't it... LOL. I think you get my drift. I got lazy. Why should I crawl back to the transformer to shut it off. Get the job done and get out of here. And I did, heading off to get something sweet and go take a nap. Agreed, it should of been off...for sure. Now, look at all the fun I get to have... fixing those heat kinks. I love playing M.O.W. games. Thanks for the thoughts and interaction here. I appreciate it.
Soldering Iron Grounding To Track Update: I was able to replicate. **expletive I can't use here** the heat kink on my layout. More by accident then on purpose...grrrr! I was working on a section of track on the main, transformer on with power on, and only the block I was working on was turned to the on position. I soldered a wire lead to the track and managed to blow out a section of Code 80, Atlas Flex track. I had been testing for polarity as I'm in the middle of a wiring revision project. I was sure I had turned the transformer off and was good to go. I looked at Cab A and it was off but it was Cab B that was still on. I know, I just gave you a reason to justify DCC. Shame on me! I was trouble shooting a friends HO gauge layout, I went to solder in a rail joiner and got bit on the arm. The HO gauge track is durable and isn't susceptible to blow outs. Still, this is a good reminder that a soldering iron can ground out to the track and bite you. Turn that transformer off! When we turned it off, it no longer bit me and I was able to solder in several rail joiners, wire leads and my fingers...exciting!
Hey Rick.... You should be a master at feeder installs by now...how about coming over here and help me solder in the bazillion I have to do on the new layout...ok ? :teeth:
Betcha you could still do it with DCC! I've seen layouts with different power supplies for different cabs. I believe you can still set up all breakers to trip when there's a short anyplace but AFAIK you have to purposely set the system up that way. Plus there was a guy who had a dual DC/DCC 4x8 oval who would drop a quarter across the rails to show how the breakers would trip. Well, he added a yard/switching puzzle of sorts in the middle, just tied in, no power drops to it. That part would not trip the breakers if you shorted across the rails.
Rick, Brought this over here from George's thread (I see the majority of this discussion was during my hiatus due to daughter's wedding). Since you are using a combination of some Unitrack as well as flex, I was wondering if you thought about using the Kato Expansion track. This is the 20-050 track, which is a straight piece that can vary from 3 inches to 4.25 inches in length. I use these on my lift out bridge, but I could envision putting them into your trouble spot, and letting the unitrack's self expansion/contraction handle the temperature extremes. This is what I am talking about. I can expand the track, in place, to fill this gap when connecting the bridge. In your case, you don't disconnect the joiners, just allow the sliding to occur And, you get the added benefit of a rerailer section!
For reasons unknown, one layout I was working on with a friend had really bad rail kinks in some areas but not others. No matter how many times we fixed the kinks, they kept returning, and gaps were not helping. So we came up with a different approach: every ten or twelve feet, we would join the track not with rail joiners but with homemade switch points. Grind the ends of the rails to a long taper (as if you were making your own switch point), such that opposite sides of the rails were ground. Then remove ties as needed so that the tapered rails could be slid side-by-side into one end of a track section. Now the rails are free to expand and contract by any amount up to a half-inch or more, and we never had any gaps to cut or fill. The trackwork has remained smooth and trouble-free for the last few decades.
Taking Notes and adding up the points. Looking at options. First off get AC unit installed and it is. Next insulate the shed and I will, then consider the options as suggested by Rick B., David S. and others that have participated here. Rick, Now I have a better understanding. Yep, that would work nicely. And thanks for bringing it here. After all we don't want to hi-jack George's thread. Oh heck why not? David, Ditto, as in I have now replaced track in one section twice already and it looks like I get (GET) to do it again. George, I'd love to stop in and screw up your layout. It would give me something else to do besides screw-up my OWN! Heeheehee... Wish I had the way and means to make the trip. Ok, all thanks again for your input and moral support.
George, Don't let Rick near your layout! The Train Gods are frowning on him for calling a turnout a switch. Rick, Look at the package that all those Kato turnouts came in and see if it doesn't identify them as turnouts. BTW after reading this thread over again why would you cut gaps and then fill them in? Does this not defeat the purpose of the gaps? Al
Hawhawhawheeheehawhaw, I said with a belly laugh. "Train Gods are frowning on me" LOL You fuuny guy, Al !! Correction: That would be...The Model Railroad Gods, are frowning on me...and...that they are. the God's of the Prototype and (1X1 foot scale) Rails, are perfectly happy with and approve of my calling them "Switches". Judging from the thunder George sent me, they are real unhappy with the toy train enthusiasts for calling them "Turnouts". Heeheehee. It's an American Railroad Lingo thing that has nothing to do with model railroading...so far. LOL You can't blame me... for trying, you know... to point out the errors of our ways. Can you? COL (Chuckling out loud) Gosh, this whole discussion... got started years ago with an article in the Model Railroad, Wig Wag. I remember, at the time, the prototypers being real upset with this designation because, only the engineering departments of the 1X1 foot scale called them "Turnouts". The Rails have always called them "Switches". Some modelers can't get it right as they don't know the real deal. Just running toy trains, or it's been said, "They can't get their heads screwed on straight". But I wouldn't say such a thing....nope...not me. COL... More aptly said, "Heads buried in the sand". So much, silliness around this DA issue. Still...thanks for bringing that to my attention. I do like those Kato #6 "SWITCHES"!!!, I said with a determined grin! Layout update: Well, repairs on the layout are going along nicely. I have the new cork road bed in. Looking now at adding the track, soldering in those feeder wires and cutting in the heat gaps. Al, you asked a good question, "Why would you cut gaps and then fill them in?" I do use a CYA Rick approved procedure to cut in my heat or isolator gaps. What you don't know, is I use Zap A Gap's, medium or thick gap filling CA to hold the rails in place. I pour a bead along both sides of the rail to be cut and allow to dry until cured. This way when I cut the gaps in, with a fine Dremel cutting disc, it doesn't torque the track out. I then use the Gorilla Glue CA, and add a drop of it, in the open gap (which is rubbery in texture and doesn't glaze over or crystalize but remains elastomeric) allowing the rail to move but not close the gap. On operations night: It is important that my gaps don't close. I will run Analog DC and DCC at the same time. (I know, I know, I've heard it all before.) DCC on the main while switching can be done in the A Yard or the M Yard via Analog DC. Rule, #101 you don't run out on the main without clearance from the dispatcher. Strictly enforced. I don't need the two variants talking to each other via a closure of two rails in a pre-cut gap. If you get my drift? Believe me, with the ZAG CA CYA application, it doesn't take long for the bonding between the rail and the plastic ties, to work it's way loose, allowing the rail to expand or slide. It sounds like it is sealed up for life but that couldn't be further from the truth. Operations Night Pre-Cautions: Before an operations session, I send the W.O.W. inspector out to look for gaps that have closed. We usually find one or two that need to be pryed open. Once we get the "Highball" trains can start rolling. "Train Gods frowning on me"...that's a good one...I like that. No that's Mr. Murphy, hard at work. I even put a mouser into the train shed as I heard Murphy, was allergic to cat's. He then sends the spiders in to run around the train layout and under the train cars...do I need to say more? She got the mice and must have dissed off Mr. Murphy. Now the heat kinks? I have no idea what's coming next. Stay tuned it could get worse...LOL!! I could end up with a visit from the NMRA Ninja's or the Left Wing Turnout Gorrila's. Yep, me and the Right Wing Switchmen, will do allright.
