Anyone know of an N Scale CF-7 with the square cabs? Looking for a pair of them for a shortline project I'm working on. Thanks Joe
Someone once sold resin shells but I don't know if it had the curved roof or which cab was modeled. I once scratch built a flat angled roof cab out of brass sheet for a friend to build up a non-round roof CF-7.
The good news is I developed a successful CF7 resin cab and body quite some time ago; two frame versions, three cabs, separate number boards, AC unit, proper pilot, etc. The bad news is that I'm now through the ...fourth... complete failure to find somebody to work with me in AutoCAD to ACCURATELY draw up all the brass photoetched parts to the standards that the photoetch equipment needs. Handrails and steps mostly. Very frustrating. The resin parts are better than anything I've done before.
Randy, Do they have to be in AutoCad? Will CorelDraw files work? They can be as accuate as anything in AutoCad and since it is photo quality art that they need to produce the masks, I would think that would work.
I'm waiting for Randy's CF's. JnJ made some, but the casting I got was not very usable. Randy, have you talked to someone like Craig at BLMA? He may know of someone that can get you heading the right way.
Randy, what kind of assistance do you need. I know auto-cad fairly well, but my wife has worked in it extensively.
resin cf 7 hello i would like to buy one of your shell as for your handraills e-mail.me cataldotj@gmail.com
Just so you know what I've already developed, how close it is, and how incredibly frustrated I've become that I can't get it out.... http://www.randgust.com/CF7004 primer left side.jpg http://www.randgust.com/CF7006 primer nose high.jpg http://www.randgust.com/CF7007 primer RH with ruler.jpg Your 'starter' is an Atlas Phase I GP7, non-dynamic brake. That's what the mechanism and the long hood is. You keep the long hood, everything else builds off of that. Remember that the only thing ATSF kept off the original F-unit body was the side windows and the cab roof, and eventually they even gave up on that. There's nothing recognizable from an F-unit on it except on little chunk of the anticlimber. The entire kit is designed modularly so that you combine the proper frame sills, cab, and details for your specific unit. Remember that many of these were rebuilt twice, there were five different cabs, two different frames, two configurations of stacks, and the Amtrak ones had the AC units removed. This is the kind of quality for the photoetch parts that can be done - this is the 70-tonner kit; two sheets of brass, .010 and .005; .005 for the steps and .010 for the handrails. This kit is designed to have everything you need for the misc. oddball detail parts included. THAT is what can be done, and what I'm stuck on.
Mark4Design has/had a CF7 project on the board that would be of very high quality if his other work is any indication. My understanding is that the project was tabled but NOT abandoned and I think he might give us the best rendition to date in n-scale. If I recall correctly the shell would utilize the GP15-1 mech in some fashion. If you want a CF-7, PLEASE write him and let him know. mark4design@gmail.com
If ever a project fit the total definition of the quote "The perfect is the enemy of the good", the CF7 is it. Remember this boils down to the fact that the CF7 has an odd wheelbase - 30'. A GP7 has a wheelbase of 31'. A GP15-1 has a wheelbase of 29' 9". If you're going to try to hit that wheelbase dead on the money - you're going to have to cast new frames with new tooling. You can't do that in resin, and although you 'might' be able to run it in metal now in Shapeways, it's gonna cost. If you want to do the tooling, that's a big investment. So all of us that have looked at this (and I assure you, I had the conversation with Atlas) have that question - how good is close enough? Is one foot? 3 inches? Atlas won't invest the money in the tooling in a locomotive with this many variations and a gymnasium full of critics with rulers. The compromise I went though is since ATSF literally copied the GP7 long hood themselves (so that all the parts were interchangeable, doors, filters, fans, everything, and later the windows and doors) that GP7 long hood is still better than I can make by a long shot in resin. 6" of the spread is behind the cab, and 3" of the spread is tucked inside the steps so that the shell is all of about 6" off end-to-end. Yup, the wheelbase is a foot off. For now, anything with a lot of curves still has discernable banding for Shapeways, that will improve. At the moment resin is better if there are curves. Handrails are another matter; right now the min. thickness is about .020 and that's pretty chunky. Etched brass is way more durable and thinner. I share this basically because nobody involved with cottage manufacturing in N can afford to be stomped either by the big guys or by each other, and guessing 'how good is good enough' is the second challenge. I guess it's a two part question; is 6" too long good enough, and is 3" too short good enough, and if its not for either of us then you'll understand why there's no CF7, and why Atlas passed as well. So if you do want to encourage either myself or Mark4, there is a catch. Is that 3", or 6", enough that you won't buy it? Atlas was convinced you won't. I can risk it in resin, and probably six people can do it on Shapeways...and also be 'off'.
GP-15 would be the better choice in my opinion. 3" difference in wheel base can be split between front and rear to equate to 1.5" off at each end. 1.5" in N scale is barely noticable. 6" at either end is noticable assuming you make the body the correct size and don't adjust it to match the frame. Start with a GP15 mechanism. Grind down the metal frame that represents the fuel tank so that a Kato F7 fuel tank slips over it. Trucks are right and frame length looks like it will fit under the body fine. The tank is the worst part because the GP15 tanks are built into the frame.
I'm testing a GP15-1 chassis to see if mine works (taking the 6" off the nose/hood casting behind the cab). Worth a shot for those people that seem to get hung up on this. My GP7 conversion requires no frame grinding and the proper fuel tank / battery box is already included as a new part. It snaps on the GP7 frame. Right now, the body kit consists of six pieces plus cab plus details, probably 20 pieces total. Remember there are multiple, multiple versions of this thing, the 2649 cab, the round cab with front-set windows, square cab with front-set windows, square cab with centered windows, both original cabs with plated-over windows toward the rear, two different cab fronts, two different number boards, two different stacks, two different frame styles, two different engineer-side battery boxes. Atlas still has the GP7 long hoods without dynamic available for nominal cost. One of the things you have to understand is that you CANNOT legally use a commercially-produced and copyrighted part as a resin body master, so making a single-piece integral shell using the Atlas GP hood is not possible. Like I said, it's a nicer and sharper casting than I can make anyway. I'd like to see it work with the GP15, actually, even if it is a ton harder to do (grinding off the fuel tanks for those that actually care). Mark4 is perfectly capable of making excellent parts as well. But if you're thinking that either of us - or any manufacturer at the current time - are willing to pony up the price for full cast frame tooling for that 1' difference, you'll understand why there is no CF7 in N scale. The handrail set is completely unique, and so are the steps. Santa Fe designed their own, never to be repeated. Nothing currently made is even close. I'm convinced that 'eventually' it will be feasible in 3D printing, when the minimum self-supporting size comes down to about .012. But how delicate and brittle? I'd like to push ahead with the handrail and detail set no matter what; it would work for Marks or mine or Shapeways, whatever anybody comes up with.
I for one don't mind the foot difference if I don't have t find a machine shop to grind off the tanks. I just don't have the time/money or inclanation to be THAT exact at the moment. Nobody I have looking at my layout, aside from the occasional internet pic, is going to care either.
Randy, Seems to me you have two marketable options - sell the cab casting (which IMHO is the hardest part for a lay person to contemplate) with detailed instructions on how to fit it to the GP7 and/or the GP15-1; partner with Atlas to sell the cab and a GP-7 body shell. Either way I'd buy several for my Louisiana and Delta modeling interests. And those that can see a scale foot differenc in N at normal viewing distances have way better eyes then I do.
randgust, I'm not advocating that the GP15-1 is THE way to go. I simply mentioned that the mark4design shell was supposedly setup to work with it. And I'm not hell-bent about the differences in wheelbase, although obviously the closer the model can get the better chance for commercial success. My biggest interest in going that route is that I think we can get a cleaner shell in that manner. That is not meant to slam your work or offend you at all btw...you are presenting a good option to folks at a much lower price than can be done otherwise (from the numbers I recall, you were guestimating a price that was somewhere along the lines of 1/2 to 2/3 the price of a similar guestimate of what the m4d one might run) and you are closer to market than anyone else at this point. I think if you get your etching work figured out you'll do well. My reason for posting is that Mark 4 Design should be aware of demand to help them make a more informed decision about moving forward with the project.
A big old DUH on my part. I would need a Geep mech. Can you tell I did not have enough sleep when I wrote that post!!
