I have enjoyed reading the above. I have been modeling N Scale for just a short time, so, Thanks to all for the info. If I might inject one of my ideas: Instead of using your finger to spread any type of glue/cement; might I suggest using an expired credit card. I have used straight Elmers glue for my cork and find it works great. After I draw my center line I run a line of glue and then spread it with a card. No mess and no glue on my hands.
As opposed to another type? I did a little research and found this site with different types of CA; http://mercuryadhesives.com/products.htm#M300M Which type would you guys figure would be best?
Peco vs Atlas joiners I took a few pics of Peco & Atlas joiners to compare. The 'lip' of the Atlas code 80 wasn't as pronounced as I remembered it to be. The Peco's are code 55. It makes one wonder how the Peco even holds.
Curious re. The statement that ca glue dries "clear". I've had ca leave a white residue after drying on certain plastics (ie. peco tie plastic. Was it because the ca I was using was old and/or "cheap"? Seems there was a negative chemical reaction in my experience.
ACC in it's commercial form is used to raise fingerprints on surfaces in forensics by fuming the object in a closed environment. Thus it will react with skin oils and other type substances if during the curing process there is not sufficient air movement to carry away those fumes from curing, and those substances are present. The gap filling versions of this glue is more prone to also leave a residue because of the filler in it to bridge uneven surfaces, usually because too much was used. Like a lot of things less is better.
I use the regular "thin" type CA, placing a dab at the end of the tie. Capillary action will suck it under the tie. I have had CA stain the ties with a white residue when too much came out of the tip at once and got on the top of the tie. This disappeared when I paint the track prior to ballast. My goof on "sheer". I should have said "shear". This is the force in a joint when you are trying to slide one bonded surface against another. Tension force is when you are trying to pull one bonded surface from another. CA is incredibly strong in tension. Not so much in shear. NCDaveD
Ok. Interesting difference in terms. (Engineering degree optional) I would of normally (logically) just applied between the rails. Then you say at the ends of the ties? On each side? How about the size of the bottle/tube you use. How large and how long does it last? I'm trying to figure out how much would be needed.
That site I posted has a interesting FAQ. Specifically, it addressed the "whitening' issue; This is partly marketing, but still interesting;
Yep, at the end of the ties usually, both sides. You can put it in the middle if you like, however. The main thing is for the track to be against the roadbed. This allows the capillary action to work. I buy those little tubes of CA, (both thin and gel) in the multipacks. I've paid for too many high $ bottles going bad on me in the past. I don't mind it if one of those little tubes hardens up. The last ones I bought from Harbor Freight when they had a big sale. Tubes ended up being less than 25 cents each. NCDaveD
I have found the Peco C55 flextrack tends to keep its shape once you bend it to the curved shape you want it to take. Pre-bending your flextrack in this way might make it easier to get it to stay where you want, and might allow you to use smaller amounts of adhesive (whatever type you choose to use). Are you pre-bending your Peco C55 flextrack?
NCDaveD; Ok on the ends of the ties. I have ordered two different viscosities of CA. CarlH; Absolutely. I first bend, then cut to as close as possible, but do the final cut(s) just before I join the sections to the turnouts. At least that was the way I was doing it. It's the turnouts that are the real problem. Trying to fit six rail joiners so that the three pieces of track don't fall back out is a SOB!
After reviewing this thread I meant to ask VBruce if he had laid any track yet. But see from the recent post that, indeed, he has and it looks pretty good. How about a how-to-do- it VBruce? BTW, agree that doing the switches is demanding when several are tied into a network. I now asemble them on the workbench, using a rough pattern to get the alignment right and trim the little bits of flex quite carefully, i.e., many tries,'till right. Then transfer the assembly to the layout and trim the mainlines to fit. There's no free lunch. Although I first used caulk as an adhesive, I now nail both roadbed & trackage so I can always pull it up w/o trouble. Appreciate seeing your photos if Peco/Atlas joiners. Think that Peco makes one joiner for c80/c55, plastic or metal. Find they hold when properly installed and, if not deformed, are reusable. The security of the joint depends on the fit of the track and the security of the attachment to roadbed/table top, etc. After fitting the track it always seems to require fitting replacement ties at the join for best appearance before ballasting, although there is a technique to mitigate this. I use Atlas c80 curve pieces in a small layout and they work best w/Atlas joiners. Peco joiners are used where the Peco flex joins up. The Atlas joiners look just a bit bigger and require a little more fiddling to get them right. Earlier I had said I "run" from CA but w/o reason. The reason is that I believed the CA would not release as easily as the various caulks I used. Appreciate hearing the good tips in re CA. Maybe I'll try some for other applications. Remember a lot of glued skin horror stories though.
When I figure out how to do it correct I might. :beat-up: I laid out all the trackwork using Peco templates directly on the table using large sheet graph paper. Unfortunately, Peco does not supply a small radius (#4) template for code 55. Their #4 for code 80 is completely different from code 55. To make matters worse (much worse), the medium radius (#6) is more like their small radius. All of this cause me more headaches since I had to make numerous changes due to their stupidy. Only their large radius (#8) template seems correct. I can't beleive no one else has stated any of this. I guess on one uses their templates. issed-off:
Another modeller tip is to make your own templates by using the actual pieces and a copier. Hmmm... I mix Peco switches in c80, c55 in all sizes... maybe that's why I fiddle the pieces so much. Not yet mentioned in this thread is the problem of doing the necessary wires: where to attach, where to run, where to drill drops, etc. (But this is not an issue related to Peco, Atlas, joiners, glues, nails.) Not so easy to get it right. BTW, used 100% templates for laying track 1st time and found that getting a page by page printout from planning software that was useful to be very difficult. Layouts (and changes) for layouts 2-6 just layed track w/ simple marking of the track runs and eyeballing it.
A. You shouldn't have to, B. That's ok if you already have at least one pair of those turnouts and have or have access to a copier, C. Why, in the 1st place would I even know that Peco is that lame, causing me to do all of that to make up for their stupidity?
FYI, after four years, there is no sign of any of the track separating from the roadbed thou nothing has run on any of it yet since I took a hiatus from construction from three years ago until now.
I wanted to respond to a couple of things here. I now use CA glue to hold my track to the cork roadbed. I used to use epoxy glue but cost and the amount of working time were big disadvantages. I now use the little tubes of CA that one can find in the 'hardware' section of their favorite dollar store. The CA is placed every fourth or fifth tie on curves and every tenth or so tie on straights. On ties where a straight section comes into a curve the CA is placed on ties closer together. The CA is only a temporary measure, sort of a 'tack weld' if you will. Later when all the track is down I run my finger over all rail joints to make sure both rails are seated in the joiner and not one resting on top creating a step. When I am satisfied with it I run a train on it to make sure everything is operational. Final fixative is white glue that I use when I apply ballast. This is the method that some Ntrak people told me they use. Ntrak modules face a lot of issues that home layouts don't. The problems inherent in transporting, setting up and dismantling layouts demand robust construction. This method of affixing track seems to be about the easiest and quickest way to do it. Two more points, first, when laying track (flex track) I use the modelers "T" pins to pin it to the cork. Lot better than straight pins especially on the fingers. Second to replace those ties that one cuts off at the end of flex track in order to insert the rail joiner, Peco sells ties made for that purpose. They are notched to accommodate the rail joiner and eliminate the slight hump present when ordinary ties are used. These are called 'joiner sleepers' by Peco and are their product #SL308F. A package contains 24 ties and are priced at $2.49 per pack at full retail.
Securing the track at that broad of a spacing wasn't a problem? I would worry abut problem later before the ballast is laid. I'm also talking about large layouts and greater time spans between laying track and the ballast stage. Trying to use caulk was nothing but a disaster!
As someone mentioned earlier...the key is to use only a small amount of caulk...and spread a THIN layer on top of the trackbed with a putty knife. It doesnt take long to figure out the size of the bead one should be squeezing down the middle of the trackbed to begin with. A THIN layer...Not globs ! All the ties DONT need to be set into the caulk...anymore then one would CA every tie. Plus...with caulk you have time to 'adjust' the track if you need to before it sets. You dont get that luxury with CA. Just raid the pantry and put all the cans of whatever you can find on top of the track till the caulk sets. If you are not a handyman who can use a caulking gun or a putty knife...then by all means squeeze that little tube of CA. Just dont glue your fingers together...that hurts !!! LOL JMHO YMMV
Just remember; if you ever need to make repairs or alterations, getting that track lifted back up will likely be a messy headache.
