Scratchbuilding the Commercial Hotel

randgust Apr 14, 2012

  1. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    I've done a few of these threads before. I like to encourage others to scratchbuild things, and if I think I've got something new to add on a specific project, its worth it.

    It also has a way of motivating me to FINISH it, which is always a problem with me.

    OK, background.... most know that my big layout is based on the Santa Fe through northern Arizona in 1972, and that the original layout design features seven feet of the track scene through downtown Flagstaff. I'd stopped off the train briefly in '72, vowed that 'this was it' to model in N... by 1974 I had several rolls of black and white photos sent to me by Mrs. George E. Ude, Jr., and scratchbuilt the depot on my first N layout. By '82 I'd planned a new layout to reproduce specific areas as accurately as could fit, including the entire Santa Fe Ave. scene behind the station. Little did I realize what I was getting myself into...

    By '83 I'd kitbashed up some plastic buildings to resemble some photos and started the layout; the first block was the Bank hotel right behind the depot, the second block was the bookstore block behind it; all modified plastic buildings.

    My original B&W photos were so depot specific I had very little to go on to model the buildings, that would have to wait, but by '94 I'd been back and intensely photographed every building on the street....but, wait....wait a minute....

    Uh....where's that big hotel behind the depot? it shows on my B&W shots...although all I can really see is the big roof sign... IT'S GONE. Well, I bashed up a Pola/Model Power hotel and used an old postcard I got on Ebay later, but wow, this is going to be tough:
    [​IMG]
    That's just an awesome shot, but it was done with a wide-angle lens.

    Here's a scan of a chunk of a 1948 postcard
    [​IMG]

    What's there today? A big hole, still. What have I got to work with? Not much, just old photos. Why? Here's your clue....
    http://archive.library.nau.edu/cgi-..."Commercial Hotel"&REC=4&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0
     
  2. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    So...yeah, that was a fire in 1975. So I know that my Pola hotel stand-in doesn't really look much like it at all, despite some repainting....

    [​IMG]

    I've stuffed that Model Power hotel with a sound system generator that blows a digital recording of echoing air horns, and interior lights, and the Miller Engineering lit sign on the top (which remains 'close enough'). All that has to be kept... And, this block is the last one remaining of the 1983-4 plastic era, everything else has been replaced by a scratchbuilt building from actual photos. I've been putting this off...forever.... time to get started!
     
  3. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Cool history! Shame its still not there, but I have a feeling it will be living on in the layout. :) Looking forward to seeing the progress.
     
  4. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    Well, this is kind of like how you weigh a dinosaur. You can't measure the dinosaur, but you can measure the tracks it left in the mud...

    So, the incredible ability of Google Earth comes to save this. If you can drag the little guy over to the real place, and the blue lines light up, you have streetview, and streetview is pretty incredible. In this project, it allows me to study (plus my old photos) on the 'before and after' of this historic postcards vs. what is there today:
    [​IMG]

    If you look at that, one of the immediate mysteries is solved. The little building to the right of the one with the 'stick out rafters' is new, and the awnings on the other building to the east are new'.. but the original hole of the building is still there today. The store building to the west is just like it was before, so that's a very handy reference for vertical scaling now.

    Going overhead view, now you can recognize where the buildings were by the rooflines. Hmmm. OK, so if you've never checked out 'Tools: Ruler' you're about to. If you doubt the accuracy of this thing, check out track gauge. You're usually within an inch or so. Convinced? OK, so lets measure the ORIGINAL hole where the building was:

    [​IMG]

    So that proves it, the front of the building is just about 60 feet; 58 feet. Now we are getting somewhere...
     
  5. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    OK, now I'll give you another tool.... Photoshop.

    (my son taught me this, I'm not THAT good).

    There's a 'keystoning' tool in Photoshop, one of the more non-intuitive tools, but if you have any kind of old photo even taken at an oblique angle, it has the ability to let you click and adjust a box to the corners, click, and it crops and adjusts the image back to an adjusted and squared image plan view. So the best full-front shot I have...yet... of the full building is that old 1948 postcard... It's not great but its the best I've got.

    It takes some expirimenting, but finally I got a click and crop that appears both squared-up and reasonably in proportion:
    [​IMG]

    Stay tuned...
     
  6. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    The little building to the left is quite valuable as it is still there today. We'll repeat the process on it; go to streetview, get a 'frontal shot' of it just with with screen print. I then take the screen print into Paint as a paste, save it as a .JPG, then re-open it in Photoshop, square it up. Go to the vertical view and measure the roof for width, comes back 25 feet.... that makes sense as you can also see that the 20' parking spaces out front are a pretty good ruler.

    [​IMG]

    Now for the next great tool. You've got a front plan view, now lets print it out to scale.

    In this case, we're certain that it is 25 feet long. So, now take two scales, an N scale ruler and a regular ruler, and put them edge to edge (put your calculators away!!).

    25 feet is 1 28/32 inches; 1 7/8. You need the fractional inches because....

    Now, open up Word, and insert this cropped image as a picture. When you insert it the scaling rulers will pop up. Grab the CORNER handles and slide it around until the edge of the image hits precisely at 1 7/8. If you grabbed the corner handle the image will stay in proportion. Click out, and PRINT THE PAGE. Check it with the scale ruler for accuracy.

    Out of your printer will come a printed, scale, front plan view, in color. Cut it out with scissors if you want.... and put it on the layout! How does this look for size???

    Now, given that width dimension, you can also repeat the exercise with the hotel front, that's another posting as it created all new problems...
     
  7. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    Now you know two things for guidance....

    The hotel pretty much was positively 58 feet across the front.... we definitely know that...

    And the proportions on the EDGE, compared to the building still there, are also known as there is an excellent clue. Look at the 1948 shot, see how the distinct brickline right underneath the hotel windows lines up PRECISELY with the stick-out rafters on the front of that remaining building?

    When I went to print out the Hotel front, even when I got the length right, it looks/looked too out of proportion when printed. Too tall. OK, well when I put that shot alongside the curio shop photo (that I know is in frontal proportion)....yup, it's wrong.

    Word once again comes to the rescue. I've established that the 'fix' in Photoshop didn't quite keep the proportions right, but as long as I have a guideline, I can grab a MIDDLE handle in Word and squash the image vertically (out of proportion). I could reproportion it in Photoshop, but I'm not going to bother. This is simply a matter of taking a guess, printing it out, and comparing the results to the building next door....

    [​IMG]

    Meanwhile, research back at the NAU site finds a WONDERFUL shot of the building in 1910. Good news is that it shows a lot of brick and cornice detail, and explains things like "why was there a closed-up door on the second floor in the front???"-balcony access. Bad news is....OMG is there a lot of brick detail I didn't realize was there, much of which is covered up, but this shows more detail than the other shots....

    http://archive.library.nau.edu/cgi-...MX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=2&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2012
  8. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    OK, so now for the moment of truth and admissions of guilt...

    I had VERY little to go on when I did this back in '83, a few color slides and nothing on the hotel. No measurements of any kind. These were all hacked-up plastic buildings in the 'close enough' category:

    [​IMG]

    The only one of that group that I'm satisfied with is the "Club 66", as I've done that building by this process a while back. One thing I was never sure of was whether or not it was there in '72, but that 1975 fire shot put that question to rest - it was.

    Now, I went down the block to the west and did EVERY BUILDING all the way to the intersection, because I'm getting the sense that something is terribly wrong here AND it won't fit.... Print out the results, glue them up with rubber cement, and put them on the backdrop and see what I've got to deal with here....

    [​IMG]

    The good news is that overall, the length WILL FIT, but wow, did I misjudge some of the original dimensions! The bookstore, Hong Kong, and Wigwam Curios are the right width but way too high. The little brown store is WAY too big, and the hotel is both way shorter and much longer. Overall it fits nicely, but this is going to be a full-block fix project, not just the hotel. Right now I think I can lower the height of the first three by simply cutting it down and resetting the roof, redo the next two from scratch.

    Here's the front-on comparison:
    [​IMG]

    For those of you that say 'geez, if I had that it would be close enough', I couldn't agree with you more, and it's been this way for a LONG TIME. But I've managed to replace almost every other building on the layout with a scratchbuilt one of the real thing with reasonably accurate dimensions, and this last-standing block of plastic is irritating me by comparison. As long as I couldn't figure out how to make it work, I was safe, but once I figured out a way to recreate a building I couldn't get a current picture of, well, here we go. If you saw the layout in person you'd note that the block just to the right (with the Monte Vista on the backdrop) looks WAY better than this block, side by side, which doesn't particularly help either - I am painfully aware of 25 years of progress in technique every time I look at it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2012
  9. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Your dedication to historical accuracy, prototypicalness (not a real word...but sounds good lol), and the area itself just astounds me. We go to "Flag' quite often, as one of my wifes doctors is there. When her doctors appt. is over we drive down to McDonalds...grab lunch...and drive back to the train station. We grab our lunch and go sit on one of the benches behind the station. Watching intermodal after imtermodal lumber on by 15- 20 feet away is...well....KEWL!!

    I want to model the old hotel building accross the street (which now has the piano store in it) and T.H.E Wife wants the Irish pub and eatery on the other corner. We wont model the whole downtown area like you...and our buidings will be like what is there today.

    Once again...your modeling and history lessons are an inspration. <salute> :thumbs_up::tb-cool:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2012
  10. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    The "Bank" stone hotel directly behind the station was the first I kitbashed. It's got lots of stonework, decorative stuff, etc. I found a Kibri european building that was "close enough", and even by my standards today, it's still good. I took a deep breath and scaled the building using Google Earth yesterday, checked it against the kitbashed model, and it is within 4' of the right length and dimensions. That's good enough, and it still looks the part. It stays. This was the second block I did.

    Flag became an addiction, starting with the depot. After scratchbuilding that... Of course now, you can do a pretty 'close enough' startup with Flag with that $20.00 ceramic model from the Danbury Mint. The first time I saw it (after spending about a year scratchbuilding mine) I about went into shock. It's good. I'm not sure I'd even scratchbuild it again, or if I did, I'd get the Danbury one just to study it.

    Watching Flag change - even the time I've known it - has been more than interesting. It's gone from tourist to shabby to tacky to GenX college/North Sedona. The most incredible transformation is on the next corner with Joes Bar that's now a crystal shop. That says it all.

    The building you identify as the irish pub and eatery was a Rexall drugstore. By 1972 it was a bookstore with the upper windows covered. During the 80's it was something else, now it has morphed again. About the only structure that is virtually unchanged is the Grand Canyon Cafe, it still looks just like it did in the late 1940's postcards I've collected.
     
  11. dave n

    dave n TrainBoard Supporter

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    Awesome. Your approach is very similar to mine w/ my downtown Modesto scene, although I'm more fortunate since I model 1995 and most (but not all) of the buildings are still there and I can use Google Earth to see the actual buildings. Excellent archeology so far :)!! And I'll be following you here, I love scratchbuilding projects :)
     
  12. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    One of the things I like about this method is that you get get a feel - very early in the process - what the finished product will look like on the layout. You can print out multiple sets of those photoshopped and scaled photos in Word, as many as you want. You can simply tape them to backdrops, or to cardboard props, or whatever. And photograph them on the layout to see if the finished impact is what you want.

    The construction method now just evolves into converting those photos into a 3D model. There's no drawings necessary. You just measure right off of those scaled photos.

    Although I've tried a lot of materials, my favorite is stilll..... posterboard. POSTERBOARD? Well, yeah. It's cheap, you can draw on it, cut it with a sharp Xacto, it glues and reinforces really well. When braced up with basswood, it rarely warps. On the other hand, some of the all-styrene models I've done have had to be repeatedly reinforced years later from warping.

    I'll still use styrene materials for surfacing in many cases, but I don't use solvent cement, I'll use 5-minute epoxy to bond styrene to posterboard. The best walls have THICKNESS, and windows are usually inset in walls rather than on the surface. That's very true on this building as well. One of the challenges is building up enough of a wall thickness to look right so that the windows are truly inset.

    The next challenge after that is determining how you're going to do windows. Basically it evolves into two approaches - make or buy. I've come to the conclusion that the only way to do multi-pane, older windows is to see what can be bought, modified, or is close enough. But there's just nothing out there for newer-style commercial doors and windows and they aren't all that hard to make out of strip stock.

    After I sized up the hotel, it looks like the upper windows measure out about 36" x 6'6" with a two-part divided standard window. It's hard to see, but there are four panes on the bottom and six on the top. For "forensic modeling" it's hard to beat this shot: http://archive.library.nau.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/ahsnd&CISOPTR=97&DMSCALE=100.

    Man, that is just such a 70's modeling shot! "in a random survey, how many pickup trucks and cowboy hats are present in Flagstaff on any given day?"
     
  13. Cajonpassfan

    Cajonpassfan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Randy, very cool! And yeah, you need some appropriately attired locals!
    i love this kind of reality based modeling and all the research that goes into it makes it so much more interesting. Keep the pics coming please!
    Regards, Otto K.
     
  14. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    OK, so construction has started. Some of the photos - particularly the fire ones - make it clear that the building was brick. But there's not much brick relief and no visible mortar lines, obviously painted. So the H&R styrene brick material that I still have sheets of is not really what I want. I want something..not sure what...different.

    Digging through my junk boxes I had the EUREKA moment. Many years ago I bought some old Con-Cor "Cornerstone" buildings for parts. Many got hacked up for other buildings. But there's an entire solid plastic brick wall in there, just the right size, nice brick but not overwhelming. That's the good news. Matching it up against the photo, yeah, that looks promising.

    Then for the windows, it's a compromise. There are ten tall and narrow windows across the front, looks like about 8x6 and about 30-36" wide and about 6'6 tall. You can see the glazing clearly on the one fire shot.

    I don't particularly like scratchbuilding small-paned windows. So its a search to see what is 'close enough' In this case the Tichy 4x4 30x80 is close enough! [​IMG]
    Tichy has a nice website with photos and dimensions and very reasonable shipping charges, unlike other suppliers.
     
  15. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    Checking the dimensions on the scale photo, and looking at other photos its obvious that the 'window strip' sticks out, and has additional brick detail on it. The plastic wall I'm hacking is also THICK. So getting the windows cut in properly is a major step. I'm going to cut the windows in before I cut the wall sections, just easier to handle.

    So to get all the windows cut in properly and square and spaced, I made a styrene template, fit the window into it (and they will be mounted from the back, not the front) and then made the template edge 18" above the bottom brick edge. With a centerline on the template and some quick measurements of the photo I need a window every 5'6".

    So here's the process for cutting in the windows...
    1) pencil off the guideline on the bottom
    2) Make window template out of .020 square and straight.
    3) mark off window centerlines
    4) Slide the template along and mark out the opening with pencil
    5) Use the template to center the corner drill holes also watching the pencil mark.
    6) Use a square and mark the window edges from the corner hole outward edges
    7) cut the lines relatively deep but don't try to cut through. You'll distort the hole and likely break the blade
    8) Drill holes along three edges (I did to .0375). Then cut the holes between with the #2 blade, snap the window out on the remaining edge.
    9) Cut out the worst of it with the Xacto, using a window as a check
    10) When you're nearly at the end, use a flat file to smooth and finish the final window fit.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Niceeeeeeeeeeeee :thumbs_up:
     
  17. MRL

    MRL TrainBoard Member

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    How did you get google earth like this?
     
  18. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    It's a free download, although a chunky one.

    You'll need a pretty good internet connection to make it useful. It's a bandwidth hog, as well as a computer hog, to run. But it is worth it if you've never played with it before. One of the great toys of the digital age. As the satellite photography gets better, and they cover more and more with the streetview cameras, it becomes progressively more useful to modelers.

    http://www.google.com/earth/index.html
     
  19. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki TrainBoard Member

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    Outstanding series of posts Randy!

    Educational and entertaining!

    I look forward to more. :)

    Also look forward to seeing the finished product myself.
     
  20. jnevis

    jnevis TrainBoard Supporter

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    One of the advantages of newer GoogleEarth versions is the ability to get views from a few years ago. Find the area of interest and find the clock icon in the toolbar. The slider will give you the dates of imagery back to 1993.

    I've modeled a couple buildings in SketchUp to judge how big they'd be to build. There's a couple articles floating around on using GE and SketchUp for modeling buildings. I haven't perfected it yet, but getting better.
     

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