Bill, I hadn't realized you'd done that! Fantastic model, especially the bow, which has proved fiendishly difficult for me to get correct. And the bridge, which is slanted, canted, cambered and swept on the prototype. Where did you find info on the davits/boat cranes? Or the early rescue boats? Do you see, as I do, two 19-footers (with four davits) starboard, and one 27-footer (with one big boat crane) port? While this is N Scale ships, rather than trains, I am earnestly trying to achieve enough interest and information exchange to actually make a market and offer some choices for larger ships in N Scale.
Barges! We don't need no stinkin' barges! ....Sorry, I couldn't help it. I completely forgot about barges. Anyway, one of my future projects is some PRR F22 gun flats and/or one of these: But dimensional info on the loads is prooving hard to come by, without actually going out an field measuring an actual gun tube. They are around and I may end up doing exactly that when the time comes. FS
more info That sure looks like a 16 inch Naval gun. They were about 66 feet long, and weighed about 135 tons, so I was off by an order of magnitude (the entire three gun turret weighed about 1600 tons). I'm not sure what the barrel alone would weigh, but I presume about 125 tons without the breech. The car in the image looks like it could carry that load. A coastal defense (US Army) 16 inch gun would weigh considerably more, as weight was not an issue, but I think by the time of this image this is a Naval gun. That such a gun could fire a 2000 lb+ projectile at 2700 fps at a range of 20+ miles is staggering to me. Perhaps the length will help you calculate the other dimensions of the load. I'm not aware of bigger or longer gun barrels.
Hi Pete: I think I bought a set of plans from the Coast Guard Museum of the Northwest for my model. I believe they only showed the twin davits each side and no rigid inflatable. I haven't looked at them in a while though. Went through a divorce so I'd have to dig through some stuff in the garage to find them. In regards to the gun barrel, a good way to figure the length is to know what size gun it is. A 16"/45 caliber gun like on the Iowa class battleships is 45 times the diameter of 16" for the length of the gun, or 60 feet long. Cheers: Bill
Hi Bill, I thought the Navy 16" guns were 50 caliber, not 45, which would make them about 66' long, or perhaps 68' with the breech. I do see that later mods were 45 caliber. The problem for modelers is how much of that length is in the turret--well, at least it's a problem for me with the 5" guns. I notice you've got some supports at the rear of the helicopter deck. I have not been able to find evidence of them in photos. It sure would make construction of the 01 deck--the helicopter deck--easier, as it tends to droop at the rear without support. Did you do your own decals? I've drawn them up, but not printed them yet. Red and blue on a white background shouldn't be too challenging--or am I dreaming again?
Hi Pete: I masked off the red and blue stripes on all four of the cutters I've done. The Coast Guard emblem is from a 1/72 scale aircraft decal set. I did make the numbers and Coast Guard lettering though. I believe the length of the barrel includes the breach. a 16"/45 CA. gun is 60' overall but the actual barrel length is 53' Cheers: Bill
I worked on the USS New Jersey prior to Reagan recommissioning her in "82 (?) at Long Beach Navy Yard . The Iowa class BB's guns were similar to the 1919 -16 " 50 Cal the Army wanted to use for coastal defence up to I think 1922 (See Davids Island Long Island Sound) but they had their own design with the barrels being made in Pocatello Idaho and I think one of the reject barrels still resides out side the Pocatello Industrial complex.. I digress - they weigh in at 119 tons : The primary guns used on these battleships are the nine 16-inch (406 mm) / 50-caliber Mark 7 naval guns, a compromise design developed to fit inside the barbettes. These guns fire explosive– and armor-piercing shells, and can fire a 16-inch (410 mm) shell approximately 23.4 nautical miles (40 km). The guns are housed in three 3-gun turrets: two forward and one aft, in a configuration known as "2-A-1". The guns are 66 feet (20 m) long (50 times their 16-inch (410 mm) bore, or 50 calibers from breechface to muzzle). About 43 feet (13 m) protrudes from the gun house. Each gun weighs about 239,000 pounds (108,000 kg) without the breech, or 267,900 pounds (121,500 kg) with the breech, 133 US tons... Still all in all with boosters, she could throw a 1900- 2700 lb round (n AP for shooting a ships or HE for land targets ) 23.6 miles and hit the target they aimed at . It took about a minute and a half to get there. and when it did , the knock on the door was awsome indeed... I was president of the IAM at Long Beach when Audie Bransford did an oil painting for the Navy of the NJ on a fire mission , the following summer the Navy Battle ship club had a birthday party for the New Jersey in Long Beach and I won a color print copy of that fire mission Audie painted , firing her most forward turret and launching self guided missles from her twin box launchers. awsome indeed . I was very proud to be part of history that put her back to work even if only for a short while . Paul Paul
The car is rated at 250 tons. I believe the gun is a 16"/45 (older BB vintage) destined to be used in a coastal battery. Apparently these types of flats were used almost exclusively to transport guns to coastal batteries from the arsenals, Watervliet being one of them. The Navy guns tended to use the F22 type gun flats. I was looking for diameters at various points along the gun in order to possibly turn one on a lathe of some kind. It's a dream I have. FS
This is an N scale model I did of the Battleship USS West Virginia BB48 as she looked in October 1945 after the end of the war. I made the barrels of the 16" guns out of various diameters of sprue and tubing. [/url][/url][/url][/url]
The US built 450 of the 173' steel hull Bluffton class subchaser in about 30 months. Some were built along rural river banks on simple keel blocks, with tall stepladders. Some served in the Korean war, while others where given to allied countries as patrol ships, and served well in the 1970s. The model includes custom photo etched brass railings with catch fencing and the stanchions spaced correctly. There are 209 individual custom made parts, as well as anchors, guns, and rescue gear purchased from Bluejacket Shipcrafters. The hull is cast resin, with rarely modeled shunwaters made from brass. Anticipated price is $650. I'm a little disappointed at that price, but the models take longer to produce than I first estimated. These are as accurate as I can make them, based on official plans and hundreds of photos. There are eight hulls in the first run, and they can be numbered and named for any ship of the class. John Wayne bought a real one and turned it into his yacht! I am willing to build any ship in any scale on commission.
Been reading your thread. You've done an excellent job on modeling the USCG "buck and a quarter" cutters. I was on the USCGC Cuyahoga (WPC 157) in 1977. We used the cutter for some current research in Chesapeake Bay while I was stationed at the USCG Oceanographic Unit in Washington, DC. The cutter spent its last years at the USCG Training Center in Yorktown, VA mainly used as a training ship for Officer's Candidate School and the Bosn Mate School. Sad to say that the Cuyahoga was struck by the ship Santa Cruz II in 1978 and sunk. Thanks for the memories.
Speaking about 16 inch rifles, at the former Naval Ammunition Depot in Hawthorne, Nevada, now an Army Ammunition Plan, there are 7, if my memory serves me, 16 inch rifles next to the fence along Hiway 95. I have a few pics of them at home taken in the 90s. They've been there since I was a kid and that is a while ago. When I get home and find the pics, I'll post them. The cars for transporting them were reworked in the late 1970s in the event they had to be transported as replacements. I believe the cars are still there in one of the remote spurs of the ammunition plant. The Hawthorne Nevada historical society may have some photos of the cars. Will do some research and post my results.
Thanks, Mike! I believe the Cuyahoga was the last active Active-class cutter. My photos show that she retained many more scuppers (portholes) than most of the class. Do you know if any of this class were air-conditioned later in their service? I know that many scuppers (in many ships) were plated over during WWII to reduce the chances for flying glass; I've never read of a relationship between the plating and the advent of air conditioning.
Hi Pete, Your welcome. Yes, the Cuyahoga was fitted with A/C and was the last cutter of the Active Class. Mike L
Is anyone interested in big freighters in the era prior to container ships in the 1970s? I've devised a method to build 410', 460', and 500' freighters (C1, C2 and C3), using common bows and sterns, which is prototypical. These would have a beam of 60'. These would be large ships for most layouts. The center "box" section would just come in three (or more) lengths. Or would you prefer container ships of the same size? The difference between break-bulk freighter and container ships is mostly in the arrangement of the superstructures, so the hulls would be about the same. Container ships will be much less expensive, as there is not so much detail on the decks, but populating even a small ship with purchased containers might get expensive, even if only the outer layers were detailed. These would be late freighters and early container ships--I think the huge modern container ships will have to be built on a commission basis. Building the masters and molds will be my winter Alabama project.
Monthly update: I cast the first bow of the large freighter today. It is 140 scale feet long by 60 scale feet wide by 22 scale feet deep (plus the forecastle @ 6 scale feet higher). It took 60 oz of mold materials for the two part mold, and 26 oz of casting materials for the piece. I'll cast the freighter stern tomorrow morning. It is 110 feet long, with the same width and depth, plus poop deck. I may be able to cast the container ship stern tomorrow. It is shorter at 90 feet, without a poop deck. But then I will be taking a break until October 16 for family visits. The midship section will be available in 250-, 200-, and 150 foot lengths, yielding ships of 500', 450', and 400' length. There are two superstructures. The freighter has a midship house that will accommodate 20 passengers, so it is rather large. The container ship has a rear house, compressed and tall. Pictures soon.
Some quick progress shots of the large freighters. I've popped the first bows and sterns out of resin, and they look good and fit well. First is a fast 503' break bulk freighter built in the late 1940s, and in service even today.You can see the 140' cast bow and 103' stern (blue) and the styrene box mid-section of 250' length (grey). The large midship superstructure accommodates 20 passengers. I've casted all six hatches, the 24 cargo winches, and other deck details, but didn't have time to place them, as I am racing off to Alabama for a few weeks. I've drawn the photoetch railings but haven't sent them out yet. The superstructure is easy to build, once I (or you) have gotten the square windows cut out. Next is a fast 435' container ship from the late 1960s to today. It uses the same bow (which is pretty typical in ship construction), a level stern and, for illustration purposes, a 200' center section. It could use a 150'. 250', 300' or even 350' center section and be well within modern shipbuilding practices--for mid-sized container ships. The rear, high superstructure is modeled after a similarly sized ship of the 1970s, still in service. I've drawn and cut the full deck-width folding hatches, but haven't molded them yet. I've also got the photoetch brass railings ready. Finally, here's the two of them together, showing just two possibilities. The early container ships were converted break bulk freighters, so a container ships with a midship island is perfectly reasonable. So is a container ship with a poop deck and a tall, shallow superstructure near the break between poop and main decks.
looking awesome Pete! These ships can definitely become the center piece of a layout, and people might visit just to see the ship(s) and not the trains! Unfortunately for me, these ships are as big as my whole port.
Here's a closer view of the superstructure of the large break bulk freighter. It accommodated 20 passengers in a quite stylish fashion. This superstructure is being made from sheet styrene, and will be available separately as a built-up or, for the daring, as a kit. I've developed a new method for the protruding rings of the portholes that I feel is much better looking and more accurate than micro-eyelets. Custom photoetched railings are in production--this ship requires a lot of railing! The hatches and 20+ winches are in production, and accurate in scale for most ships. (Pardon the masking tape--I was racing to leave for 'bama.)
Here's a closer view of the container ship bridge. This is the prototype, so some refinements need to be made. I shouldn't be surprised, but always am, that carefully calculated dimensions don't always line up like they should. Illustrator sometimes changes dimensions by a few microns, and the cutter has some creep and slop, so I guess this is inevitable and, if I fix it, it just might go in the other direction. Like the freighter bridge, it is built from sheet styrene and will be available as a built-up or, for the slightly daring, as a kit--which is basically a sheet of scored styrene, and a small sheet of clear acetate. This was a fun small project to design and build. The custom photoetch railings are in production. The container ship will have full-wdith hatches.
