Layout Feedback Please

This is my first layout. I've actually built it and it's working right now, but it's just tacked into foam that is inlaid into a custom table. It is about door-sized. My objective was to build something that was fun to switch for two or three people. I'm currently using Prodigy Advance2 with just one CAB.

My problem is terrain. I've built terrain for a simple oval before using foam and gouging it to create rock faces, carving, etc. It turned out really well. I finish with Woodland Scenics, the result was very satisfactory. This layout is completely flat. I'm afraid that, if I start to finish it, I'm going to be bored with it. Because of this, I haven't even wired it (all turnouts are electric). People will be seeing it from the front, primarily (near the yard). I was considering adding some terrain and elevating the outside mainline by 2" in the back, perhaps adding some coal industry. I don't have a solid theme, but my most of my rolling stock and locos are Chessie System, so I'm thinking rural northeast coal and lumber.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

Nice - lots of track for the space. I don't see a reverse loop or wye, but with some tweaks you could probably fit one.
That funny track at 15 (V), 45(H) has a couple of "S" curves and doesn't really add anything, I'd cut it, especially if it helped
you with adding a reverse loop. You have a lot of cross-overs on the outside loops. If you like them, great, but
for operation, you could eliminate two switches at the top, and at least two more at the bottom.

You can easily add some elevation by keeping the outer top loop at base level,
raising the bottom half a bit, and raising the inner top loop above that.

-Mark

 

Maybe you could start by just roughing out some fomecore buildings (unpainted, little white boxes) to give yourself an idea of how the buildings/industries would work. You can do that quickly and easily, and not intrude on your switching fun. As for natural scenery on a flat layout, you could easily do the whole thing with trees of different heights (a scale 40' - 60' tall forest makes a suitable view block), and maybe just an undercut for a trestle or highway overpass of some kind. Those are all good generic solutions for a non-specific layout that will add some visual cues but not take a whole lot of effort. Either that, or decide you're modeling the plains or prairie. There's plenty of flat farmland between Chicago and Alabama, for example.

 

The S curve siding in middle doesn't serve any purpose other than it can be done. Just make it a spur by getting rid of switch on left end. If you keep it make an in one side/out other side industry. Also the Xover on the 2 track spur makes no sense as you have a siding above it. W/o it you'd also have room for more industry spots..

 

@NumberOne: I added the track here because I thought it would be interesting, but I could remove it. I haven't given a lot of thought to what I'm doing in the center of the layout, but I thought having a line running through it might be interesting, if not terribly realistic I'll clean this up.

Also, I don't have a reverse loop, but I've considered something like this. With DCC, I just need insulators in the loop at the turn-out, yes? I should read up on this a little more, I'm sure it's not all that complicated.

Since the layout will be viewed from one side, I'm reluctant to leave the outside loop lower than the inside as it and it's sidings (and industry on either end) will be hidden. I'll think about it a little. My inclination was to RAISE the outer loop and tunnel the inner loop near the back corners, maybe shortening the siding on the inner loop a little.

@BoxcabE50: I wasn't planning on using a view block as no one will see this from the back

Thanks for all of the suggestions, I think I'll try adding a little variation in elevation near the back (back is the top). I am a little hesitant on the yard as it doesn't seem easy to switch. For example, I'd like to run a consist on the outer loop and still be able to run a switcher from the sidings at the bottom to the yard if necessary. The trouble is (obviously), there's a lot of back and forth. I'd like a clean path across both main lines without having to reverse direction on my switcher. I know this is probably just a matter of shifting some turnouts around, but I also like the length of my sidings between turnouts right now. I'll go back to Right Track and see what I can come up with.

James

 

If those are 1' squares on your plan you better have VERY LONG ARMS to reach the back of the layout. It would be better if you could walk around the whole layout or at least have a short side against the wall. You should try to see how far you can really reach across something like a table w/o damaging things in front. Is this an N scale layout?

 

As for the grade and the viewing angle, I would just go up or down a fraction of a full level needed for an overpass/underpass, so that's not enough to block the view
of anything.

For a reverse loop on DCC, it's best to isolate both ends of the reverse loop and then power the loop with an automatic reversing module designed
for that purpose. Without isolating the reverse loop, you'd get a short circuit. And with DCC, the polarity going to the loco won't affect the direction
it's traveling in.

-Mark

 

N-scale on a "door" format...fine. The following are only questions & my opinions...you have a LOT of track for the space. That means very limited scenery choices. A little rearranging of the track and removal of some of the less purposeful alignments will allow you more scenic area and more realistic views. The scenic divider Boxcab recommended could really help to increase the realism of view, operation and extend the perceived size of your layout. If you're limited for floor space to this size and format, perhaps you could allow for the layout to be pulled out from and/or turned for viewing and operation from both long sides. With the desire to have so much track, elevation changes won't be easy, as they demand scenic width (embankments) between levels/tracks. It looks like a good and ambitious beginning...look it over, think it over, and decide. You may want it just as it is...or maybe some consideration will help you achieve something you didn't realize you could. It is your layout, you can create what you want. All the Best. Bob C.

 

hi,
if it was my layout, i would certainly add casters on it, so it could be pulled away from the wall.
With a scenic divider a scene on both sides would create a much more attractive layout.
Your layout is rather track heavy, i am thinking about a layout plan by Byron Henderson.
The backside of the inner loop is lowered a bit and hidden inside removable buildings. (or between removable backdrops) and used for staging.
Actually I remember an industrial plan and a more rural one.
The 7 feet of length you have is sufficient for a station at both sides of the divider.
Some larger industries with lots of loading doors and a small yard could be fitted in easily. This would be a major rebuild.
I am not sure if these plans are on Byron's weblog since they are owned by MR-magazine.
The industrial layout can be found in 102 Realistic Track plans by Kalmbach as plan #21: Houston's Port Terminal RR.
A plan of my own using the same idea:



Good luck
Paul

 

Switching is a lot more fun if it has a purpose. I wouldn't worry about most of your equipment being Chessie. If it's modern Chessie (rather than transition era), Chessie has grown far beyond it's coal hauling roots.

But, accepting that the view is from the bottom of the diagram and not the top, and that major changes in the track plan won't help, I think perhaps you were on the right path when you mentioned raising the rear tracks a couple of inches. You can hide a bit of the "loop" by a having the track on one side run through a cut as it climps the hill and, just so as not to be repetitive, a forest on the other side. With the hill in the back, doing that will give a bit of a hint of a diorama and frame the center of the layout as a town in a valley. (A small stream, meandering from back to front would help give a reason for the valley and, if you're layout is on foam, allow you to cut a shallow trench to give some more variation in elevation.)

As for traffic, you can try to fit a small mine on one of the spurs on the top of the hill and perhaps a hint of a logging camp on the other. This will give you two sources of traffic. As far as traffic sources/destinations, one of the spurs on the bottom cries out to be an interchange track with the outside world. A cassette, that can be moved out of the way when you aren't running the railroad would alllow you to actually move the traffic "off layout", but if no space is available, just routing a couple of coal cars and flats carrying lumber to the interchange track (and then treating them as empties being returned to be reloaded) would work.

You could use one of the spurs on the outside of curve at the bottom as a coal dealer, giving a local destination for the coal from the coal mine. Perhaps another as a coal wharf

Inside the loops, I think I'd envision the left side as rail yard (well, duh! ) and use the two tracks parallel to the front of the layout for engine services and either a RIP track or MoW storage. RIP is nice, because it gives you another destination for cars - *any* type of car. That leaves the right side of the layout for the "town". It doesn't look like you have room for a Paper Mill, but if you route a wood pulp car from the lumber camp to the interchange and then offline via the interchange, you could always bring back a box car with paper products for a local printer.

Then there are the more traditional options - the team track and the freight station and maybe a small manufacturing plant. It doesn't have to be one of the kits for a furniture company (or masquarading as a furniture company, but that'd be in keeping with the lumber side of the layout.

On the track plan, I agree with those who thing removing the U curve in the center is a good idea. It doesn't seem to add anything and you could use the space for addional scenery and/or even another siding and freight destination. I wouldn't worry about a reversing track, especially if your interest is in switching rather than just watching trains run. Switching involves plenty of back and forth, so no one is going to get tired of seeing the trains always running in the same direction. The space is better used for a bit more "ambiance" than more track.

Anyway, there should be something in all that to chew on. I don't know if scratchbuilding or kit-bashing is something that interests you, but if they are, I'm sure there are plenty of other industries that can be used to generate traffic with a destination.....

 

Assuming your layout is N scale

MikefromCT cover most of my comments.

Only other suggestion I have is consider only raising the back tracks 1" vs 2". Based on your plan a 2" rise would be about a 4% grade.

Here a link to a N scale layout that uses a 1" change in elevation. http://raybob.boche.net/

 

Thanks again for all the feedback. It's all very useful and I appreciate everyone's opinions. I have removed superfluous track on the inner loop, I agree that this was unnecessary. Thanks for the pointer on the 4% grade as well, I almost started to cut some 2" foam for the back outer loop. Obviously, I'd like to keep grades under 3%, I just hadn't done the math. I like the yard, I have two tracks for locos and I'm actually wondering if I should add another for a switcher. I've been eyeing that Kato CS switcher for about a year now...

Really, the problem is that I've got a layout working now, but I'm going to need to "break" it in order to progress (terrain, etc). Also, I need to start thinking about a panel. I want to switch the entire layout from the front. My dream is to have two cabs running simultaneously and someone switching with a lot of activity. This, to me, just seems like FUN. That's where I'm headed, I just need to try not to get hung up on the details. This layout has been in the same condition for over a year Time to start working again. Also, I've built a capacitor discharge controller for my Atlas turnouts. I need to figure out how to integrate signals and I'm considering resorting to PICs and EEPROM to save state. I'm so close to just going DCC all around, it just seems like a leap for me. Anyway, thanks again! I think I'll go dig out the wire foam cutter.

 

JC,
then you will need the outer and inner loop for the two cabs, since just doing laps is a bit boring, a few spurs along these loops could be maintained.
However you will need a dedicated yard lead and passing siding for the switcher, the first at least being operated without interference from the other cabs.

It would mean adding a third 180 degree turn, from the yard ladder to the industries in the centre. Consider building industries and warehouses as scenery building as well. Your table is filled to the rim already.
BTW switching is best appreciated when done from nearby, no good reason to only use the "front" of your layout. Other reasons might be causing this wish.
Paul

 

Thanks for the yard feedback. This is a tough problem for me as I have limited space. Suggestions are, of course, welcome. For now, I have a main line that I can keep from being polluted while switching. I have an arrival/departure track off the main (inner loop, below the yard), but this is often used to build a consist. The reason? Well, there are two. First, I can't move stock around without getting on the A/D as my yard lead is just not long enough (it's a turnout, really . Second, I added a "tail" (not sure what to call it, but it's on the right, off of the A/D track and this is long enough for me to pull 4 cars onto the A/D track at a time. SO, I need to first pick up a caboose and my last few cars, then move them onto the A/D. Notice also, that the distance between the turnout for the yard lead on the AD only leaves so much room. I can then manage to add another few cars, then my switcher is STUCK on the tail (right hand side) until the consist is pulled from the departure track onto the main.

I should make some pictures to describe this problem, but I'm sure most people reading this understand what I'm talking about. I don't like my yard yet, I'd like to do something that works better before I start laying cork. I'll play around and post an updated image, but if anyone has time to play with it, I'm more than happy to send the RTS file. I need to sort this out so I can move forward, I'll probably start to nail the yard down first and this is my biggest problem.

Actually, I'm attaching an update image. I added a runaround to the yard, but I am not sure it helps. There's industry off of the inner loop runaround near the top now, is this bad? OH! And I stuck a caboose track off of the arrival/departure for the inner loop. This might be useful, not sure.

Thanks!

 

I'm having trouble picturing how this layout will look just by looking at that CAD. Where are you planning industries, and what industries are you planning on using? Is your yard primarily going to be Box Cars? I know you mentioned adding a mine to the rear of the scene, so will the yard be more focused in that direction?
When I design layouts, the thing I DON'T do is just map the track. If you just look at track, then sometimes scenes that would look great modeled look extremely boring on paper, and the first thought is to add more track and operations to the area. Modeling out your planned industries, other buildings, and scenic details will give not only you, but everyone else a better picture of your layout you have in mind.

Alex

 

hi,
i was not able to get your yard in with Atlas #4 and #5 turnouts, however by adding a third curve at the left side of your plan you are able to have a pretty long arr. & dep. track.

Paul

 

Thanks for the ideas, I like this! I'm going to see if I can make this work in RTS.

 

If the yard tracks curved more towards the road they could be longer. As drawn looks like the yard can only hold about 10 cars in N scale. Also can the A/D track be shortened using curved switches in N scale?

 

I've made a few changes based on the last suggestion, but I have a few concerns. I like the longer A&D track, this will work well and keep things from feeling cramped. I didn't take it all the way around the layout, but I think I've got enough room. I also depicted the proposed location of an engine house. I added a small spur on which I can park my switcher. I think the long runaround between the A&D and the yard will work well, I've already tried this and it's useful. Oh, and I've added a caboose track in the yard as well, above the engine house.

Ok, my concerns. First, the trains will probably all run CCW. This seems to make the top left spur on the outer loop useless as the locomotive is trapped. Is this normal? I'm not familiar with real-world operations so much, but it seems like there should be a run-around there. I could pollute the outer loop while dropping cars on the siding, using the main or the runaround to push them into the spur. Is this acceptable?

FInally, I've done away with the siding on the bottom which would mean that the spurs (as they are now) would suffer from the same problem that I described in the previous para. The only trouble is, I'm not using a siding to push cars into the spur on the lower right, I'm using the inner loop (!) which seems really bad. I want to run two trains at the same time, this would cause problems. Again, I can pull the locomotive in head-first, but longer consists will still hang into the main line. The two spurs on the bottom seem pretty useless unless I expand the layout. Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong?

Thanks!