Opinions wanted on Walthers 5 Unit Double Stacks

To all you modern intermodal modelers out there that own the Walther's Thrall 5 Unit double stack well car:

What's your opinion of these? Looks like Wig Wag Trains will be getting another run of these in soon. The description of the cars reads that they have die cast metal bodies much like the new Gunderson's will have when they arrive from deluxe Innovations.

The Walthers price is certainly attractive. (around $29). I ordered some DI ones, but their price will be at least double that.

So, what you you modern intermodal modelers think? Do these need to by on my roster?

 

These are nice cars. I have a few on my layout. Occasionally, you'll get a sticky truck, but other than that, being the diecast they are heavy enough where they run pretty well, even empty. The details, especially around the articulation-joints, aren't the greatest, but adaquate. A company, I believe N-Scale of Nevada, used to make a kit to replace the detail,b ut don't quote me on that. Overall, these are very much worth 30 bucks.

GoSteelers
ATSF Chillicothe Subdivsion

 

Chris,

Here's my take on it. The Walthers cars are OK, not so much out of the box but they can be made to be decent cars. I've seen some that run better than others and it all seems to have to do with the "fit and finish" of the articulated joints. There have been numerous online posts about improving the articulated joints and other operational improvements. So basically if you have the skills to tweak them, they can be made to be good cars.

Now to the looks. The first thing you'll want to do is buy the Gold Metal Models detail kit for these, which includes etched metal walkways and stirrups. Then you'll probably look at M-T couplers. I've seen several posts about GMM-ized Walthers cars that have been detailed and weathered and M-T's added and they look AWESOME. (I think Red Rock did one if I recall) So they can be made to look good as well.

Now, if you can find the DI Thrall sets, which ain't easy, then you have to ask yourself is all the tweaking for the Walthers cars worth the time and money compared to the DI cars which are essentially golden right out of the box. (Keep in mind that DI has three stack sets, the Thrall that are like the Walthers cars, the Gunderson Twinstacks which have the bulkheads, and now the Maxi-Stack III's. The DI Thralls are hard to come by, although I suspect they will eventually re-run them at some point)

Walthers also has the stand-alone version of the Thrall cars (both single cars and draw-bar connected 3 or 4 unit sets) and those are unique in N-scale I believe. So if you're going to buy some of the Walthers cars you might want to go that route....that's what I've done: Walthers for the stand-alone cars and DI for the 5-unit articulateds. I like the stand alones because they give you a shorter car that adds variety to a train without taking up the whole 5-platform length. (another trick someone suggested was to take one or two platforms off the 5-unit articulated car to help train length--maybe not prototypical but probably not something anybody would notice unless you told them.)

When I belonged to an N-Trak club the train length issue was moot, but my upcoming layout has a train length equivalent to ~24 50-foot cars and two monster 6-axle diesels or 3 B-truck locos. So you start putting 5-unit cars in the mix and you run out of train real quick.

 

Well Doug said it all, except that the D.I. Thrall set is a rare find. Occasionaly you can find one of their earlier kit version from Interrail. Some reports have circulated that the articulation joint was not offset which caused some issues but that has reportedly been or is being addressed by D.I. and is part of the reason for the delay in a second release.

 

George, do you know if DI has plans to run their Thralls again? Maybe "DI George" will chime in here.

 

I did see the single units as well. There is a single well car and a "3 - pack" of single well cars. Are these the ones you refer to when you say they can be draw-barred?

I like your idea Doug.

 

I also give them a thumbs-up. They are a great starting point. I replace all the trucks with Micro-Trains, so those aren't an issue for me. The only "issue" I have with them is that they rely on a bolster pin to keep the sections together. If you replace these with a screw, they will stay together much better, especially when backing up or in the middle of a heavy train.

 

They look good and run very well,I have added gold metals details and MT couplers but because of the weight they are great.

 

I have 4 of the Walthers sets. With new trucks, couplers, and some other details, they are some of my best running cars.

 

I have always had trouble with the pins on articulated cars, but like the Walthers single well cars. As cast metal, they are heavier, with the ability to run empty if necessary and track well.

I have tried the screw in the articulated joint with mixed success, so I run mostly the single cars, mixed with a variety of other TOFC and COFC types, as I see such mixed trains often.

 

I have one 5-platform articulated car, a 3-platform and a 2-platform drawbar-connected, and two stand-alones. All have MT trucks and couplers at the coupler ends, and I think I have MT wheelsets in the trucks without couplers. I have other intermodal equipment too, but the Walthers cars are the most trouble-free runners of any I have. They are heavy enough to work fine empty. They are also heavy enough to drag your locos down if you don't use a very low friction truck under them. I'd rate the detail "adequate" for my use as NTrak runners, but the end platforms and grabs are crude when viewed up close.

We still have some lumpy bumpy track on our NTrak layout at the park, but I've never had a disconnect on my 5-unit articulated car yet. I am using weighed containers, too.

I like 'em and I suppose some other people agree, because they sell out quickly. I didn't know they were being re-run. I'd like to get some more of them, if I'm not too late...

[ May 20, 2005, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: LongTrain ]

 

Doug:
I believe that is in the works for sometime in the next year. However it was not sent to Walthers for inclusion in their 2006 reference book.

I was told by another D.I. rep that the next year, "Will be a big one for intermodal modelers."

LT:

We didn't either until they showed up as shippping off our relatively dusty back order list.

The last batch was available thru Walthers for a while (18months?) so I suspect these may be around for a day or two also. I hope so as I've had to re-order a couple times already.

 

Thanks everyone for their reviews. I have decided to pick up a set of the 5 unit articulated and a 3 unit set of the stand alone cars. I also ordered a set of the Gold Medal Models detail parts kits. Then all I have to do is change over to MT trucks and couplers.

Thanks again!

 

Just remember that the deLuxe Thralls have 40' wells (the old Interail kits) whereas the Walthers Thralls have the 48' wells....different cars for different service.

 

I like them also - my only beef is that they run too high. When you put them next to a set of Alan Curtis well cars, they look like they are sitting 3' off the rail. That said, though, I have some 5 unit sets and run them regularly. I have modified mine w/ MT couplers and screws in place of the bolsters, and have no problems at all with them in operations.

You should be happy w/ your purchase

 

I also like them after a GMM detail kit and some MT trucks. I have one set of 5 units APL and three set's of TTX 3 unit with draw bars.

 

The interesting thing about intermodal is that all of these cars run together. The difference between the Walthers cars and our Thralls (which we are working on a re-run of) is that they are models of different prototypes. The Thralls from deLuxe are LoPac 2000's with all 5 wells being 40'. These cars came out in the same kind of time frame as the Twinstacks, and quickly gained popularity. The Walthers car is a later car that was built to compete with the Maxi 2 and Maxi 3 cars from Thrall.

As models go, they are also very different. The Walthers car is an "entry level" model, with some cast on deck plates and grab hardware. The deLuxe ones are by design a more complete model, with etched metal walkways and grab irons. Different style- different price. If you look at Loren'[s upgrade kit, you can make the Walthers look like the deLuxe.

The important thing to remember is that, other than wrecks, every well car built past the first ACF 5 unit big orange SP cars is still on the rails. Depending on what time period you model, you need to adjust the balance of all the available well cars.

By the way, someone mentioned that the Walthers cars fit certain manufacturer's containers better. This is true for two reasons- 1- the 48' wells are prototypically wider than the 40 footers. 2- The deLuxe 40 foot wells are prototypically accurate, so the ConCor/Herpa 40 footers that are too wide (102" as opposed to the accurate 96") to fit in an accurate well, no matter who makes it. I'm sure some of you remember the Con Cor 40 footers that John at Aztec used to mill down so they would fit the old Interrail cars.

Yes, this will be a really good year for Intermodallers. If that is a word!

Best-

George Johnsen

 

I wouldn't say all, as I have seen some of the "bulkhead style well cars of "Sea Land" heritage being cut up for scrap recently at the port of Stockton, CA. There were about ten five packers cut up there, all were ex SeaLand cars that were stencled for CSXT. Right now there are several CP Rail container flats awaiting their fate on the same tracks, all stencled "Home Shop For Repair, Do Not Load". I tend to wonder if these cars have outlived their usefull lifespan.

As for the Thrall LoPacks, you can find quite a few reports on weld failures and structural cracks causing catastrophic failures resulting in costly derailments just by doing a google search. Their days too may be numbered.

As for the Walthers model I plan to get a few more. I just finnished up an undec set this week, as well as two AC models sets. My double stack fleet is growing to meet the demand.