What is the Placement of Dwarf lights?

SleeperN06 Mar 12, 2011

  1. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    I’m installing Dwarf lights in my yard and I need to know how close I can be to the tracks before they really look out of place. I want hem close so that I will be able tell which light goes to what track..

    In the photo below it shows them right in the middle between the two tracks. How does one know which track the light is for in the real world?

    http://www.rrsignalpix.com/shots1/Dsc_1518.jpg
     
  2. jagged ben

    jagged ben TrainBoard Member

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    In the real world signals go to the right of the track they are for, or above. They can only go to the left if there is no track farther to the left.

    In your photo the signal in the foreground is for the track just to the left of it, and the two-light signal further to the left is for the track on the far left, which appears to be an interchange track.
     
  3. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    What about a yard where the tracks don’t have an outlet. Which side would I have the lights?

    [​IMG]

    This is another section of the ladder with the lights at the side of the turnout
    [​IMG]
     
  4. jagged ben

    jagged ben TrainBoard Member

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    The same rule applies. The signal should go to the right of the track that it's for, to be prototypical. They should be on the other side of the tracks in your picture, if they are facing toward the ladder like I think they are.

    I believe that in most prototype yards the signals would face away from the ladder, and be used to protect the ladder and lead from trains exiting the yard. But I'm sure there are exceptions, perhaps particularly involving passenger terminals. And don't forget rule #1.
     
  5. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    After looking at it for a while, I think maybe they should be on the outside of the ladder since there really isn’t any room for a loco to stay in the yard. The cars will be pushed in and pulled out from the lead track.


    [​IMG]


    I now have to figure out how I’m going handle the lead track with its two crossovers and also the entrance to the A&D track.

    I never thought for one minute that this would be so complicated. I was just drilling holes at each switch without thinking about it and now it looks as though I need to move all of them.:pbaffled:
     
  6. Frank Campagna

    Frank Campagna TrainBoard Member

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    quote: "I never thought for one minute that this would be so complicated. I was just drilling holes at each switch without thinking about it and now it looks as though I need to move all of them."

    Probably why many people don't do signals. A very complicated business if you want to be accurate. Practically a hobby's worth of work in itself.

    Frank
     
  7. Gats

    Gats TrainBoard Member

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    Depends on what and where you are modelling. For example, CNW was a left hand running road so the signals would be on the left hand side (as are quite a few railway/railroads around the world).

    There are times when a signal needs to be placed on the opposite side of where it would normally go and, in the case of the railway I work with, an arrow is placed under or above the head to indicate the track it applies to.

    As to how far they are placed from the track they apply to, that would be covered by a standard indicating a structure gauge showing minimum distance from the nearest rail dependent on height of the signal. It does start getting involved in the 1:1 stuff!
     
  8. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    I wish I hadn’t started this, but I had the option available with the controller I'm using and went with it. For every reason I can think of to place them on one side of the track I can also think of a reason of placing them on the other side.

    I’m looking at each switch and trying to come up with some logic, but I think if I can somehow just be consistent to make it easier for me to remember, I’m just not going to worry about it anymore.
     
  9. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    I thought signals were on the right side of the track regardless of left or right hand running because the engineer seat was on the right side of the locomotive. Now a days, of course engineers have a low nose and better visibility to the front but in days past it would be very difficult to see a signal, especially a dwarf signal, from the right seat of a steam locomotive with a boiler in the way [except of course a cab forward]. Most first generation diesels like the GP7,9 or RS 1,2,3, etc. ran long hood forward also and restricted the engineer's visibility to the left as well.
     
  10. Tony Burzio

    Tony Burzio TrainBoard Supporter

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    Simple solution. Yards normally don't have signals. :tb-biggrin: Switches may have lanterns or other indications attached to the switch machine, next to the points (normally).
     
  11. brakie

    brakie TrainBoard Member

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    Since most yard ladders are manually operated why have any pots (PRR speak) at all?

    Even at that your pots are in the wrong location and completely missing on the diverging track.

    Are these pots just a means to see the way the switch is lined? If so why not put that on your control panel?
     
  12. CSXDixieLine

    CSXDixieLine Passed Away January 27, 2013 In Memoriam

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    On the modern CSX (and most of the predecessor roads such as SAL, ACL, L&N, C&O, B&O, etc.) dwarf signals are (and were) placed where a non-signalled track entered an interlocking. In other words, where a non-signalled track joined or intersected a signalled track. Examples of this would be a non-signalled siding joining a main line, a non-signalled yard track joining signalled tracks at the end of the yard, and so on. I am not saying this is a unique practice on CSX, it is just what I am most familiar with.

    In this picture, a dwarf signal protects the south end of the passing siding where it rejoins the mainline. Mast signals guard the mainline in each direction:

    [​IMG]

    Jamie
     
  13. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    After looking at Jamie’s photo I starting looking at my Car Shop. I have red lights on the siding to the Car Shop facing toward the switch, I think it might be confusing and I’m going to change it.

    Do you think I should I have Red on diverging track facing away from the switch on the right or Green on Main indicating clear through?
    [​IMG]

    Note: I’m using duel color Red/Green LEDs so I don’t have yellow to indicate diverging, so that’s out. Also I only can have one LED per Turnout.
     
  14. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    One of the reasons they were put to the right had to do with the engineer sitting on the right side of the cab. Easier to see them.

    Sounds like you are getting some superb advice. These guys and gals know what they are talking about.

    I'm impressed with the ballast work on your track. Nicely done.
     
  15. brakie

    brakie TrainBoard Member

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    Johnny,Maybe I can help?

    One pot facing away from the switch at Switch 88 will handle signaling for 87,86.A facing pot at 86 will handle signaling for 87,88.This should be a 3 position pot showing stop,diverging and green for straight...

    Each diverging track will need a pot at the clearance point.

    Without a diverging aspect it will be hard to govern traffic flow since you will only have a absolute stop or proceed..Of course radio instructions from the yard tower could tell the crew what arrival track they are heading into and the green will just show their selected route is clear-remember that will be a restricted speed green since they are under yard limit rules..
     
  16. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks.

    You know after playing with it some more, I realized that "I" might not be able to see them, so I might just have to keep them as they were, because the whole reason for this is so that I know which position they are in.

    Do you think this looks alright?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2011
  17. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    Larry, I somehow missed this post.

    To answer your questions, I don’t have room to have a decent control panel on the layout, because my room is so small. I do have a computer control panel on a flat screen Monitor mounted on the wall. I just don’t want to be staring at the monitor the whole time. I want to watch my trains.

    I have most of the switches set up with routing so I don’t have to remember all the Switch numbers, but I do want to be able to see some sort of indication that the switch has been thrown. I can’t see the points anymore without my magnifying glasses so I’m using the LED option that is built in to the controller.

    Unfortunately the LED setup is really designed for a panel board with just one red/green per switch.

    Your last post gave me an idea. It will not work for all the situations on my layout, but since I’m using routing I can combine groups of switches or turnouts in the route to have more alternatives, such as yellow.
     
  18. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thank you for the thread. I will have a "medium" sized yard / open staging with at least 10 tracks. I've been wondering about the same thing. Now I know the question to ask. :)
     
  19. SleeperN06

    SleeperN06 TrainBoard Member

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    You hit it right on the head. I’ve asked this same question a number of times, but not knowing exactly what to ask has left me hanging as to how to handle this.

    I’ve used the term "signals" in the past, but after being corrected so many times, I don’t say that anymore. Now I’ve just heard a new term “pots”. I don’t anything about signals or pots and it’s all just too confusing so I will not be doing this again.

    I think I might have said this before, but I guess the answer is since what I’m doing isn’t prototype anyway and I seem to be breaking all the rules, it just doesn’t matter what I do.
     
    Penner likes this.
  20. SteveM76

    SteveM76 TrainBoard Member

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    I'm just wondering why you would have signals in a yard at all. Signals are used on controlled track. What are you protecting? Are you just trying to have switch position indicators?
     

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