Creating N Scale Backgrounds/Backdrops

Jerry Tarvid Feb 2, 2011

  1. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    Reading over a recent thread on scenic density (SD), scenery to track ratios, terrain ratios and building ratios as well as studying the photos submitted got me looking closer at the backgrounds and backdrops.

    I am modeling a modern N scale urban switching layout in a small bedroom and “want to have my cake and eat it too”.[​IMG] I have designed the layout with all of my needs and most of my wants at a price of low scenery density. This has not deterred me from looking for alternatives that might improve my situation. I think I see a means to an end by using the appropriate background / backdrop to enhance and extend my scenery aspect ratios.[​IMG]

    I would like to learn more about techniques like blending layout scenery into the backdrop, forced perspective, track level view versus aerial level view and how to create a backdrop using my home computer / photo printer and 10 megapixel digital camera.[​IMG]

    I’m very interested in layout photos, worthwhile books, tips, techniques, pros and cons for creating backgrounds / backdrops where a low scenery density exists such as yards and heavy industry.

    I've attached layout photos and track plan for reference.

    Jerry
     

    Attached Files:

  2. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    If you do a search of the Trainboard forum for "backdrop" in N scale group you'll find a lot of good information. There are several recent threads that have been excellent with sources and photos.

    Here's one to get you started:
    Potential backdrop enhancement for the Tehachapi sub - input requested - TrainBoard.com

    The search function is a little hidden and obtuse here but it won't lock you out because you weren't a member in 2004, either!

    I'm using paint horizon lines, actual photos, commercial stuff, and mirrors.... rather indiscriminately and evolving over time. If it looks good in photos, it stays.

    This single shot has just about everything I've tried so far in it, with the exception of the mirror, and that's just off to the right...

    [​IMG]

    The recognizable land masses of Mt. Eldon in Flag and also the Winona Cinder Pit are photos, and the distance between the distant track and the backdrop is less than two inches.

    Rather than try to carpet the entire backdrop with photos, I've done very basic painting of the horizon line, and then filled in with recognizable photo elements of the place I'm actually modeling. It shouldn't work as well as it does, but it does work.

    One of my favorite tools is Photoshop. That, a decent printer on photo matte paper, etc. are all you really need. When I'm doing precise edge matching between sheets I like to just horizontally reverse images and reprint them. That worked really well to create about four feet of treeline in the background on this shot from ONE image to do Mars Hill justice.

    [​IMG]

    There are just so many outstanding layouts here with backdrops, all I can do is prod folks to kick 'em out one more time.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2011
  3. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    Randy,

    Thank you for sharing the photos, links and explanations. This is exactly what I was hoping for. I have to state for the record I am not an artist / painter; however I can do anything with a computer / software.[​IMG]

    I plan to add a twelve inch tall masonite back drop wall. Layout background / back drop ideas are as follows:

    Starting with the closet area I envision a river valley tree line. Easement varies with the loop of track from ¼ inch to eight inches.

    I have a two inch easement to work with on the Eola yard wall (window) and was thinking of back shop buildings or industry buildings with a tree line to fill in the gaps.

    There is a four inch easement on the S. Chicago wall and it is slated for a passenger station, three or four story factory back drop buildings and a one story plywood manufacturer with rail spur. The lower level manufacturing companies will consist of three or four story buildings and will create a scenic break from front to back. I would really like to see a cityscape skyline with a lot of depth to create a Big City feel.

    The Joliet side wall is slated for suburban houses with a transition to a rural tree line. The peninsula (Joliet side) may or may not have a scenic divider for the flour mill and intermodal yard depending upon the back drop on the wall.

    I’m a sponge at this point.

    Jerry
     
  4. JVolz

    JVolz TrainBoard Member

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    I've just the route of cheapy craft paints for my hills/mountains, with a blended blue/white house paint sky, and airbrushed clouds. Not perfect, but works for me.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  5. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    A couple more tips I've discovered:

    Don't overlook the HO pre-printed backdrops from Walthers. If you're close-up to flats, the building sizes are closer to what you need than the N scale ones.

    I've never had any luck at all with the big rolled ones, the sky always bubbled and warped. So I carefully X-acto knife out around the building and tree outlines, edge-paint them to match the printed color, and rubber-cement them to the painted masonite backdrops. There are other guys that have had good luck with the sky-printed sheets with clouds, but not me. If you use rubber cement you can peel them off and replace them too.

    Don't be afraid to build up that concept in layers - mountain/trees background, glue more building cutouts in front of it, then flats... that's what you're seeing in mine.

    If you add actual photos of real elements in that mix, it becomes reasonably seamless as to what works and looks right. When in doubt, check your work with a camera.

    I'm really only posting to this to keep bumping it up. I'm really hoping SD&AE modeler will put up his background photos, because that just blew me away here, along with many others. Mike W. has great small town shots and Pete N. has harbor scenes, many others here with specific scenes to help you out.
     
  6. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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  7. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    Joe, I like how you used the relief approach to create a tangible hillside that blends into the back drop.

    Randy, thanks for the additional notes. My urban / big city setting will benefit from the layering effect of printed materials, flats and back drop buildings.

    Steve, thank you for the link.

    Has anyone scanned in a "postcard" photo(s) and enlarged / expanded it for use as a back ground city scene? Could this be printed in letter sized sections that could be pasted together on the masonite back drop? Does PhotoShop have this capability?

    Thanks guys,

    Jerry
     
  8. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    I was looking for that thread - even searched for it - and didn't find it.

    OK, on the postcards.

    Most commercially-printed postcards have a lot of grain even when scanned hi-res.

    I'm not sure how much you can actually use full postcards because of that - and blown up - but I have successfully taken vintage postcards for buildings, parts of buildings, and signage and put them on backdrops.

    In this shot - the 'perspective' wall of the Monte Vista is right off of a postcard, and enlarged to fit the de-keystoned image of a different photo of the front of the building, which is a flat. So the left side is a photo, front is a flat.

    Buildings in front are half-depth, most signage is taken from photos.

    Mt. Eldon, in the background right, is from a photo.

    The sign on top of the hotel - glued right on the masonite-, front is modelled and the right side is a photo, to get the perspecctive right. Resized in Photoshop to fit.

    [​IMG]

    Hi-res images from digital cameras sure work nice. The San Francisco Peaks shot I have behind Flag is off of my own camera.

    As I was wandering around looking at the town through the camera lens getting my views right (last year), I discovered that there's another big downtown building that should show that's not on the backdrop. Only now, it's painted red, when in '72 it was green. I got photos, that will get photoshopped, printed, and likely 'repainted' all in Photoshop. Another layer.
     
  9. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    Jerry - you are quite welcome.

    Rangust - It was easier for me because I knew who started it. :)

    I'll bump the thread soon with pics of the backdrops Pete did for me.
     
  10. AtomicVette

    AtomicVette TrainBoard Member

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    how's it look when the pictures is taken at different angles?
     
  11. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    Randy,

    I will be in the Chicago land area this summer and could get some cityscape shots at that time. I own a quality tripod. I could scope out the location in the afternoon and then take pictures after sunset.

    Is my 10 mega-pixel Canon camera high res enough for quality N scale results if I take multiple shots and stitch them together? How many miles / tenths of miles would you suggest I should be from my subject matter? Should I frame the shots with a bare minimum of sky? Should I take the photos at ground level or should I place myself one or two stories off the ground?

    Thank you for indulging me with all the questions.

    Jerry
     
  12. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    There's very little field work to do except to pay particular attention to light and contrast and shoot higher resolution so you can manipulate images in Photoshop without seeing grain.

    If what you're shooting is backlit at all, or high contrast against the sky, may not look right at all. You may be limited to morning and afternoon shots to get enough 'sweet light' to properly light what you're trying to.

    If you look at the photo contest pages for models on Trainboard, and look at SD&AE modeler's photo backdrops, you'll see he nailed it perfectly on the low-afternoon light concept. Never seen it done better. When he lit the layout from the same angle it was dead-nuts perfect blend.

    EDIT: Here's the shot I mean....
    http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/picture.php?albumid=1113&pictureid=16659

    Notice the shadows on the photo backdrop vs. the shadows on the layout - the late-day sun.

    The horizon point of reference depends on whether you are trying to fool the view that has a head 9" or more above the table top, or a camera with the lens 1 1/2" above the table. I've always opted for the camera viewpoint myself, with an established horizon line only 2" off of the railhead in the 'desert' side, and 3 1/2" in the 'mountain' side of my dividers.

    I'm familiar with Joliet - basically very flat country - so the horizon line blending method with photo cutouts should work well over time. Your horizon tends to become an indistinguishable blur of industrial rooftops and treeline with an occasional item of interest (like water tanks or radio towers) popping up in the distant background. The tendency for the city itself to be in just a bit of a depression/valley has some potential though. You can test where you want to go by checking both Bing maps birdseye views and Google Earth street views.

    Here's probably the closest I've got to nondescript industrial. Backdrop is only 2" off of the siding. I've exagerrated the mountain line at Winslow (its really only visible due west) by using the HO West commercial backdrop mountain line, then some trees inserted, then some buildings inserted - three layers here, then the buildings, then the near siding to the lumber yard.

    [​IMG]

    These are the kind of commercial backdrops that I put in on the first pass that I am replacing with actual photos over time. These are somewhat indistinct, which can be a plus and a minus. I'll do a camera test to see if I like the result - with it just temporarily stuck there. I put the San Francisco peak shot into the Flag backdrop for a couple months before I finally decided it was staying and looked right.

    The eternal arguement about backdrops is whether you're better off having them photo-accurate (and possibly better than the modeling) or rather indistinct in nature. I'm kind of in the middle leaning toward somewhat indistinct except for certain key items that you simply can't ignore - like a 14,000 ft. mountain range visible from 50 miles away, recognizable buildings, etc. And other than the horizon line technique, I've proven myself to be a horrible painter.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2011
  13. brakie

    brakie TrainBoard Member

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    On my ISLs I perfer industrial building backgrounds since it give more industries to switch.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    Randy,

    Thank you for all your efforts and detailed explanations. The photo of SD&AE’s layout is as you say “dead on” with respect to light angles / intensity.:thumbs_up::thumbs_up:

    Allow me to restate that the big city backdrop is intended for the S. Chicago side of the layout (wall to the right of the Eola yard). I envision myself looking at the Chicago cityscape as though I were standing in the downtown terminus yard facing north.

    Regarding the use of indistinct / nondescript items; that may go against the grain with regard to my use of a cityscape photo that is in perfect focus. I’ll just have to experiment with different back drop items and see how well they photograph. Personally I am drawn to a more in focus background similar to what the naked eye sees; however I like your idea that if it takes a good picture it stays.[​IMG]

    Jerry
     
  15. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    Larry,

    I also like using backdrop buildings wherever possible. I believe it adds more realism to the layout and in your example is also functional as an industry siding / spur.[​IMG]

    Thank you for sharing the photo.

    Jerry
     
  16. Kenneth L. Anthony

    Kenneth L. Anthony TrainBoard Member

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    How high the camera? Randgust said it depended on the location of the eye or camera that will view the scene.
    I had an interesting background perspective problem. I was building a small portable layout which would often be set up temporarily on a table-- it would probably never be at the shoulder level at which I like to build my permanent railroad. Sit-down viewers might be looking at it from 4 or 5 inches above track level. Standing viewers much higher.
    The scene is a Navy blimp base. It was so big that if you were ten stories off the ground, you could look up at the UNDERSIDE of the ceiling. I constructed a perspective view as if seen from 10 stories up. Many stand-up viewers would actually see it from a higher pov but I compromised it.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. dave n

    dave n TrainBoard Supporter

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    Kenneth - that looks really cool. You've matched the colors nicely and gotten a good blend into the backdrop.
     
  18. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    Yeah, Ken, that illustrates the concept EXACTLY that I was trying to explain.

    It also gets tricky around mountains. The 'implied distant horizon' is constant, even if mountains rise above it in the foreground. My original horizon line is now behind a lot of foreground scenery in one area, but I put it around the entire line anyway as a reference point. I do have significant scenery that is now higher than the horizon line, and the only way it looks 'right' is again, the trackside view.

    In my own area, I-40 is up on the hillside south of Flag, and as you drive around, the ATSF track is distant, and lower than the highway, and the mountains simply tower over everything and completely dominate your visual impression. But when you are at street level by the tracks downtown, the mountains only show up in the distance; two completely different perceptions and perspectives of the exact same scene. It helps to photograph the TRAINS the way same you expect to view the layout, and see the role the background plays in those views. I do a lot of close-in, track-level model photography and that's the target I chose. But I'll admit if you simply stand in front of the layout, the horizon actually looks 'low'.

    That was behind my struggle to include or not include the Peaks in the downtown scenes. When I was walking around the depot, you never really noticed them. On I-40, it was like 'holy $#@@' the mountain dominates the view! When I got south of the tracks on the parallel streets, away from the downtown (visually similar to the eye view of the layout) the peaks were distantly visible, but not dominant.

    So picking your ideal viewing distance from the 'eye' to the track will help define the perspective distance at the rear. You've got some pretty deep scenes, that means that a foreground shot would have a lot smaller buildings way back. My scenes are really, really shallow by comparison, the deepest runs only 17". That's how you begin to really focus on the background because it carries so much of the visual impression.
     
  19. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    Kenneth,

    Great blend of scenery from foreground to backdrop given the pov of the photo. I believe many viewers / operators of a layout tend to slightly tower over the scenery. In my opinion eye level is preferred and I have a pneumatic stool that allows me to view trains / scenery from that pov; however during operations my eye is 18 inches above the layout.

    Thanks for sharing.

    Jerry
     
  20. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    Positioning Backdrop buildings

    Moving forward with another topic related to this thread I would like to discuss positioning backdrop buildings. I plan on having numerous backdrop buildings on the layout. On the yard wall I would like some back shop buildings trackside. On the S. Chicago wall there will be a depot, factory buildings and a plywood manufacturer (rail served).

    Most buildings I have drawn in on my layout design are square to the wall / track. Obviously any rail served industries are in line with the track. I have seen many instances where the backdrop buildings are constructed and placed on the layout at an angle to the wall / track.

    My first thought to angle placement of backdrop buildings is to create more scenic depth to the background.

    What determines whether a backdrop building should be placed at an angle to the wall or square with the wall and how does that relate to the foreground / background scenery?

    Jerry
     

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