Hey, everyone. I plan on getting some reefers for my SD&AE layout, and I have a quick question or two: Did AT&SF and PFE reefers ever run together in the same consist? Also, were PFE/AT&SF reefers mixed in with general freights or did they have their own special trains of reefers only?
ATSF reefers were very rare on SP trains, SP used PFE reefers mostly, sometimes they leased reefers from Bangor & Arostook (BAR) and other eastern roads.
In doing a lot of research on perishable shipments on the east coast I of course got a kind of tangential history of such shipments on the west coast. From that I definitely got the impression that such a mixture would have been extremely rare. That in fact cars from the BAR and the "Our Companies" group (FGEX, WFEX, and BREX) would be far more likely to appear in an SP train that those of the SFRD. From time spent in San Diego almost half a century ago I did not get the idea that it was a real center for agricultural production nor have my recent readings changed that impression. From that I would surmise that agricultural shipments would have been from fairly small operations that might handle 5 - 10 cars a day during the season and would not generate the completely perishable trains that were found on AT&SF and SP proper. However, railroads of whatever size tended to move perishables as rapidly as possible. I'm not certain where the SD&AE connected with the SP but it's a good bet that your road would have gotten them to the SP asap. Probably this would have been in small blocks as part of a general freight. But it's your railroad and who's to say that the SD&AE didn't make special movements of "hot" cars for those they considered special customers?
I would think the answer would be "it all depends..." Generally SP would use PFE reefers for handling shipments it originates. And reefers often (usually?) are restricted to be returned empty, not used for whatever shipment is needed at the end where they have been delivered and emptied. I would think very few or almost no shipments that would originate on the ATSF in SFRD reefers would be delivered to or over an SP line. Any ATSF reefer movement to San Diego would probably be handled by ATSF's own line. The exception would be an ATSF shipment going to a customer whose industry siding is handled only by SP. I don't know whether or not there is any such situation in the area dcovered by SD&AE. My for-instance would be a refrigerated shipment picked in California or Arizona in an area served primarily or exclusively by ATSF being shipped to New Orleans, where ATSF does not go but SP does. That shipment might go as far as possible on ATSF, then be handed over at Beaumont to SP to go the rest of the way. Similarly, a shipment of Maine potatoes being shipped to the San Diego area might originate in a red,white and blue BAR reefer (or insulated boxcar- which I think of as sort of an "honorary reefer") and it would go all the way in that "State of Maine" car, not be changed to another car. SD&AE probably also handled private-owner reefers for shipments of Swift, Armour, other meat packers, just as it would handle private-owner tank cars.
Again from information gained during research for east coast shipments. Since SP and AT&SF were fierce competitors, especially from/to southern California they would both probably do their darndest to avoid handing cars over one to another. In fact, AT&SF shipments to New Orleans were handled AT&SF - RS&P - T&P. The RS&P (Roscoe, Snyder & Pacific) was a very profitable short line due to handling bridge traffic from the southwest to the southeast. Believe that the claim was from southern California to New Orleans in 5 days. And since SD&AEs car supply was provided by the SP at El Centro, it's almost a sure bet that the overwhelming majority would be SP or SP controlled (PFE) cars. This is another facinating facet of the railroad industry - the interchange and interaction between railroads that were "friendly" connections versus those of not so friendly roads.
Thanks for the info, guys. I just wasn't sure about this because the SD&AE linked with the SP in the east and the AT&SF in San Diego, but seeing that most of the perishables shipped on the line were from imperial valley to the west, I think I have my answer. Besides, I like the looks of the PFE reefers better anyhow; the trouble is finding them online. The places I go to buy my rolling stock usually have much more selection in AT&SF reefers. I need to time my purchases just right when some PFE reefers come along, and then time it even better to get the double-herald ones. (I'd prefer not to get the Union Pacific Overland PFE reefers but I may have to chance it. I may just get some double-herald decals for them.)
Apparently in N scale for PFE, the situation is the same as it is in HO for FGEX cars - especially for my era, 1957-67 - not a good supply of cars. Funny thing is that in HO scale Athearn produced a bunch of PFE cars with several different schemes and numbers. Perhaps you could contact them to do the same thing in N. In HO Accurail is supposed to introduce 2 new styles of reefers, plug and regular reefer door lettered for FGEX. Hope they'll offer them in multiple numbers.
That's the other thing, I only found two road nombers of PFE cars somewhere, so I went ahead and ordered 3 of each along with some sp boxes and gondolas and a c-30-1 caboose --WITH THE SLANTED CUPOLA! YAY!-- (for an SD&AE relettering). I have some black decal letters at home, and I'll just change the last digit of each car. BTW thanks for the info, guys! So question #2 in my original post is this: Did the reefers run in solid block trains, or were they occasionally mixed into general freights when there were less of them? I ask this because my SD&AE books show a single PFE reefer mixed in a short branch local and a block train of about 2 dozen out on the mainline.
SP & AT&SF qualify as "not-so friendly", I presume. It even got to the point where the SP couldn't name their 2-10-2's Santa Fe's they called 'em "decapods":tb-biggrin:
