One of my friends (and oddly enough one of only 7 or 8 fellow N scalers in the Northern Colorado Model Railroader's Club) is trying to recreate the Moffat Road in N scale and he is having issues with his Bachmann Spectrum Mallet. It will handle the 4% grades fine on its own, but when he puts a pair of boxcars and a caboose on it, the grades prove to be too much for the Mallet to handle. Would Bullfrog Snot be a viable solution to his problem? I have never used it myself, but have read awesome reviews and seen videos of engines with it on there and it looks like a wonder product. Have any of you used it? How well does it work? Does it still allow good electrical contact? Do you guys have any other ideas on what he can do to get his train up that hill?
I have used it on a few diesels. It works great! I dont own any steamers yet...so cant say how well it works on those. I am going to use some of it on my Arnolds S2 this weekend...as it wont pull the 3 passenger cars around corners...on T.H.E. wifes SExcursion train...without slipping.... .
You won't go wrong using Bull Frog Snot. I have a number of steamers that are back in operation thanks to the snot. It's been described as the ultimate traction tire. I tend to agree with that. It's also permanent in nature. Just follow the simple instructions that comes along with it and you'll find out for yourself, how unique it is.
Awesome. I might have to give it a shot. How is it with electrical conductivity? Is there any change than without it? Do you guys apply it to all wheels or just a few? I would assume that you would only need it on a few of the wheels, but I have no experience with this and can only assume. Edit: I looked it up online and answered my own question. Thanks! I would still love to hear more about how well it works and any other ideas on how to get his Mallet up those grades with a train behind it.
An equally or better approach is to us John Colombo's double sided scotch tape technique. I have used it o 2 lifelike Berkshires and they pull 25 cars up a 1.3% grade oval, 3 lap, n scale helix. They have done this for nearly 2 years with no change. Hopefully John will join in and send you his excellent directions.
Bullfrog Snot will NOT conduct electricity, so you will need to be sure the other pickups are in perfect condition.
I've used both bullfrog snot and the double sided tape technique and have found that the tape applied to two parallel wheels give more traction than the snot route. Just be careful to cut the tape no wider than the part of the wheel that contacts the rails and put none on the flanges or you'll have a balancing problem. Also with steam engines you have to be careful that neither bullfrog snot nor the tape get caught on the brake rods next to the wheels.
Geesh, I sure am confused here........ As you guys have probably read, I decided to keep my Kato GS4 since it is in perfect condition after Kato Service Repair, but I am a somewhat a little overly cautious about running it for fear of throwing another traction tire. So, based on similar descriptions as those above, I decided to treat the 2 Drive tires with Bullfrog Snot with the traction tires already affixed, hoping the BFS would hold the traction tire tightly in place and protect the surface from splitting. So, with those noble intentions, yesterday, Aug 11, I drove the 15 miles to Ft Lauderdale to two hobby shops to obtain some BFS. One hobby shop, which handles N and HO scales almost exclusively cautioned me against using the stuff, and refused to carry it. Then went over to Warrick Superhobbies and found some, but after talking to the two "train guys" (this is a BIG STORE) both are quite superb modelers and both reported to me they were NOT impressed with it, as it went on lumpy and the locomotives treated jumped all over the place like frogs (sorry about that). My question is this--can BFS go on smoothly and easily or does it have to be diluted down? Can it be put on a wheel with a traction tire on it without deteriorating the rubber? Is it thin enough to fit in the grooves between the traction tire edge and the slit in the wheels to hold the tire in place? I don't want to jeopardize the performance of a very expensive locomotive. Note I plan to run this loco only occasionally, as I have a ConCor GS4 as a regular, along with several other Daylight decorated locos as backups. But I would like to run the Kato unit with BFS if it gives me the security of running without tire failure. I know Kato is bird-dogging me on several boards, is that right Ms Duford? This post is designed to politely request that Kato make a traction drive wheel just like it did with the Mikado which is reliable. Nuff said. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
Sounds to me like the 2 'superb modelers' arent so superb after all. I have been using BFS on my diesels since it first came out....without one glitch. Applying it isnt rocket science...although some try to make it so...LOL. It shaves off just fine with a #11 xacto blade. I have heard of steamers who threw traction tires applying BFS in the groove with excellent results. Some swearing they will NEVER go back to the 'rubberbands' that crack or just spin off the drivers. To each their own I suppose...YMMV. .
Ken, If you follow BFS instructions the snot will not go on lumpy. You have to finesse it. In the event you oops, the advantage to BFS is you can take a razor blade and cut off the lumps. About this double sided sticky stuff. Keep in mind, something that is sticky goes down sticky and cleans up sticky. It can contribute to and be a part of the dirt accumulation on your track as well as on the tape itself. The potential to jump around and act like a frog is just as applicable. In time it will dry and pull off and you are right back where you started, with a traction tire...replacing it. Just something to think about. I always puzzle with those who work in hobby shops. What is right and wrong information is usually determined by the head honcho. Keep in mind they are selling what the boss told them to sell. If the boss doesn't like BFS you can expect to hear that from the employees. Re: BFS. You need to test the product for yourself and see if you come to the same conclusion I have.
Rick, These guys are good, as I have seen their work in NMRA contests, and we'll just let it go at that. BTW, they are HO guys, and are pretty much given a mandate to sell product at this hobby shop. We opened the little green jar of BFS, and when we stuck a toothpick in it, it sort of came out inconsistent, sort of like old Goo. There is another approach that there may be other dynamics, like South Florida. Not only climate, but we are at the very tip of the end of the country, and we often get stuff long AFTER you guys do, and this stuff may be old. Second, my mother had a sterling reputation of having the best gravy in western Penna, but once we moved down here, she constantly complained her gravy always had lumps, no matter what she did. I am thinking it is just the air or something down here sometimes. Look, guys, yes and Rick, too, I am still considering it, as I look at myself as a somewhat accomplished modeler (national model car awards). Are you suggesting if I use this stuff, I rip off the traction tires? My plan of action was to dilute it down and thin it out to fit between the traction tire and within the little space of the groove of the wheel which would pretty much cement in the tire. From your thread, it appears you apply the BFS, then shave it down to fit in the groove by itself. Sorry to be such a detail guy on this, I am not in the best graces with Kato now, and it is not the best idea to send this loco back to them for at least a few years, if you get my drift. So, what I want to do is to treat the wheel to ensure it is VERY UNLIKELY to throw a traction tire anytime soon. There are no N repair guys down here, and as far as I know, I am the first "go to" guy in this immediate area, and I am stymied about this. This is the time I need to hit a bullseye with my first shot. Not questioning anyone here, or their skills or record of use of this stuff, but I want to know everything going in before I make the committment to fix this loco. My ConCor GS4 will be here Saturday and that will be my primary unit, as long as I am on this Daylight kick. Next month, my purchase will be the Kato articulated passenger cars to complete my consist. My friend and I are also considering making an Ntrak module of the SoPac at Camp Pendleton in Southern California, and run my Daylight on that module when we get with other NTrakkers. Our plan is to recreate "Trestles" a world class surf spot I had the privilege of surfing back in '74, and make waves out of silicone and a surfer out of a Preiser figure. I have some pix of the area now which will supplement my memory so this should be a little fun. Thanks to all for your patience in this matter. I am a little overcautious when it comes to modifying a $200 locomotive. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
Ken, I may not answer all your questions. But here goes. Some of the guys apply BFS right over the traction tires. Pretty much guaranteeing you will never have to replace it. I've used it to fill in the gap, the traction tire goes in...to replace said tire. I don't see any need to thin it. Seems to me that would mess with the Chemistry and integrity of the product. I wasn't putting down the guys that work at the hobby shop. I used to work in a LHS and was forever being asked to put out information contrary to what I believed. As members of the NMRA, that can't be a bad thing. The downside is, they are the hardest heads to turn...when it comes to something new. They take some convincing and like to test things, before they throw their support in behind it. Again, not a bad thing. I've had nothing but good luck with the product. If I oops and apply to much to one side...it's an easy fix with a razor blade or scalpel. By the way, I haven't had to do that yet. BFS does not conduct electricity so you do need to be careful. Generally, I only apply it to the wheels or drivers that has the traction tires. I don't get crazy, saying more is better and apply it to each driver. One other concern I've heard is the residue it might leave behind on the track. So far, I've not seen any evidence of such, no unusual residue. Just the same old dust, dirt, lube and grease from the locomotives. You do have to follow the instructions. If you feel it appears to be lumpy then take some cheese cloth and pour it through it. That should eliminate the lumps. Odd, but I haven't seen any lumps in mine and it's over a year old. One last tid bit. Don't leave it open and make sure the lid is replaced...tightly. Otherwise you will make a whole new wheel for one of your sons hot wheels. Grin! Do make sure the grooves the lid turns on to tighten down is clean of any snot. You do want to get back into the jar at some point in the future. Does that help calm the nerves?
Ricks whole explanation ^^ made perfect sense and he didnt 'exaggerate' this time !!! Someone mark this down on a calendar...quick !!! :tb-cool::tb-tongue: .
I've always thought a criteria of judging locomotives entered in NMRA and similar contests should be putting them on a layout and seeing how they perform. I'd listen more to N scalers who run their models when it comes to how well BFS works. Although he has a large N scale stock the guy who runs my LHS is a HO scaler and I just wince and hold my tongue when I listen to some of the advice he gives N scalers. Re the climate issue I've had no problems with it in a similar climate here, and mine had to come a little bit further too.:tb-wink: My jar must be a year old by now and still usable so it seems to have a good shelf life. Slightly OT I'm curious why you're using the excellent Kato GS4 only occasionally as a backup to the Con-Cor one. I admit I don't have a Con-Cor GS4 but my Kato has never given any problems including throwing traction tires and would have to be the best running steam locomotive I have.
I'm out here; just been out of internet range. I've tried BFS, but prefer my double-sided tape technique because I find it simpler to apply and more effective. Here's how I do it. You need a roll of Scotch thin double-sided tape (in comes in a yellow/black dispenser; it's NOT the foam tape, just a thin tape that you can usually find alongside "magic" tape). You'll need a flat, hard surface like a stoneware dinner plate or glass square or something similar to use as a cutting board, a fresh #11 blade in a hobby knife, and a steel rule. Tear off a 2" piece of the tape and press it lightly onto your cutting surface. Now take your steel rule and hobby knife, and slice off about a 1.5mm strip lengthwise (you want the width of the strip just equal to the width of the driver "tire" you are going to apply it to). Pick up the strip with some tweezers. Invert your loco. Pick the set of drivers you want to apply the tape to (I always apply the tape to geared drivers, never to ones run by just the side rods) and clean that set of drivers with some alcohol or other cleaner. Press the end of the strip you just cut to one of those drivers. Apply just enough power to barely make the wheels turn, and "feed" the tape around the driver until you get to the starting point. Cut the excess with the tip of your hobby knife. Repeat for other driver. You're done. This sounds a lot harder than it is. Once you get the hang of it (it will probably take a couple of tries), it is literally a five-minute process. I've used this technique on my 10 Berks, some ConCor 4-6-4's that already had traction tires; a Walthers 2-8-8-2 (on the engine that didn't have traction tires), etc. and it has always worked. Obviously, the tape does not conduct electricity, so you will need to make sure that you have good electrical contact from the other drivers or tender (but this is also true with BFS). I actually compared using BFS to the tape on one of my Berks. Both dramatically improved pulling power, but with BFS the Berk topped out at about 20 NMRA-weighted 40' freight cars; with the tape, it topped at 30. YMMV. John C.
That's a neat idea! I would have never thought of using double sided tape. How did you come up with that? I bet it's an interesting story.
I didn't think of it myself. I read about someone else trying this on their own Berkshire on one of the other modeling boards, so I decided to try it myself. I think I refined the technique some, but I can't take credit for the original idea. John C.
Guys, I am not trying to enhance anyone or to detract anyone, I have a $200 brand new loco here with a potential defect recently repaired by its manufacturer, and I am very cautious about applying Bullfrog Snot to the wheels, simply because I believe after all I read here is once you do it, it is done and there ain't no going back. I am probably going to go with BFS and if it works to apply it to a couple of other locos if I can successfully pull this off. I don't doubt my workmanship or ability or my hands, I am doubting this product being used by me for the first time. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Meanwhile, my new ConCor GS4 is hummin' on my mainline pulling 12 cars no sweat. A sight to behold. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
I can tell you that it is obviously easy to remove John Colombo's scotch tape. It also incredibly easy to reapply.
