I’ve heard storys about reruns, but haven’t seen anything in N-scale. I don’t know maybe I missed them. When I first decided that I wanted to build a model railroad I bought a Walthers Catalog and spent weeks going through everything. Since I was starting from scratch and could not afford to buy everything at once, I figured I would buy as I went along. Well that turned into a nightmare because suddenly things were no longer available after I had planed everything so well. It was really disappointing and what upset me the most was that I had no indication that it happened like that. I just assumed that a large catalog that I had to pay for would have things forever. I’ve given up on something’s like the Maintenance of Way Truck, but now I need the Cornerstone BackShop to match up with my car shop. There are a few other disappointments as well but it will take up to much time to list them all. Oh I also want to add Cornerstone Central Gas & Supply, which I did hear came out as a rerun but I missed it. I don’t know if I should just make other plans or continue to look for these things to become available.
Never seen that MOW truck in N scale before. I do understand your disappointment. The kits you are looking for may not be in stock anymore at Wathers but they are still out there. You may find them on eBay, online shops or good ole Brick and Morter stores. In fact, some of the members here may be able to suggest locations that have the two kits you mentioned. I know I bought the Central Gas and Supply kit not that long ago at a hobby shop I visited during a business trip so you can still find them.
Hang in there! There was a company (and I believe it was Pola) had an arched glass roof train shed. I bought one about thirty+ years ago. It since got lost- never built. I moved a few times, got married, etc. I had hoped to find it one day when visiting my folks. Hasn't turned up yet. I would search for it occasionally on the web. I once found one for $65.00. It's a small kit and I wasn't about to spring for the $65. Then one day while doing that search- boomph- Walthers has it. Now made by Faller. I ordered two as I want to kitbash/simulate the READING RR trainshed in Philadelphia. So, hang in there. Give it 30 or so years. In my case it was worth the wait- I couldn't have been involved in model railroading for the last thirty years. 'matter of fact, those kits are sitting on a table behind me- unbuilt and waiting to migrate to a large box where the rest of the kits I've collected sit collecting dust. They're are now waiting for me. It's gonna be a n-scale modeler's dream of an estate sale!!! Mark
That MOW truck was the 1st thing on my list except for track and cars. There are a few here on TB that put motors in them and run them on the track. I also look when traveling but have not been very lucky. I saw a couple on eBay but missed the final bid. I’m going to Pittsburgh and West Virginia at the end of May and I’m hoping to look some more there. I was going to drive across country and stop at places along the way, but thinks came up and I can’t afford the time so now I taking a plane. Can’t see much on a plane!
Walthers will re-run a kit when they get 300+ backorders for it. I think that in a round-about way means a production run must be 500 kits in order for them to produce it because the re-run stuff seems to last in stock about 6 months to a year before it disapears. Our shop contributes to trying to help those B.O.'s along, if I I find a kit discontinued, and it's a worthwhile kit, it goes on back order so Walthers doesn't forget about them and discontinue them completely. The gas supply kit only lasted a few weeks in stock when it was re-run so I hope they have it planned in their production schedule at some point. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that if you see something you need/want....buy it. It may not be available later and if it is, the price will probably be higher.
That’s kind of a shame, because I‘ll bet there are a lot people who would buy them if they were available. I have tried to backorder but it usually pops up as unavailable. I guess nobody wants to backorder because if it takes 5 years the order may not be wanted anymore.
In N- never. HO- every year I have tried my best NOT to have any Walthers stuff on my layout for that reason. Yes, I know it's not going to make a difference, and they have some stuff that no one else makes but that's what I have decided. Right now all that's on it is a few LL engines and detail parts (roof details and tanks from Cornerstone for DPM and Pikestuff kits) is all that's on it. I have passed on Walthers kits and paid more for similar buildings by other manufacturers.
And what exactly is that going to accomplish?....... Fewer sales for N scale so they feel there is no reason to bring out new product. Walthers makes more building kits in N than any other single N scale manufacturer, no it's not as many as they make in HO but the HO market is proportionaly larger and older than N. People not supporting the product is why they think the market is small and does not justify expanding. If their N scale sales were equal or more than HO, we would see more N than HO product, it's simple economics.
I agree that is a completely unrealistic and counter productive attitude towards Walthers. IF you do that, I suggest you at least let Walthers now via email that you are boycotting and why, so they at least KNOW that they have an unsatisfied customer. Otherwise, they just think the N scale market is small, but have no idea why. That said, I have a hard time getting mad at a company that made my urban layout possible, just because they don't do MORE to make it possible. Lastly, just think what a small dollar biz the n scale structures biz is. At 500 structures per run and assuming its a $50 retail structure, or about $30 to Walthers as its own distributor/wholesaler, the total $$$ volume to Walthers on the kit is $15,000, and I am sure most of that gets paid to Heljan or Pola that make the kit, box it, ship it to the US, etc. What does Walthers get out of that? Maybe $2500-3000 in profit? The first run, where product development and molding is said to cost $50-75K would be a real money loser unless they sell better initially. It would seem that they would need to sell 2-3000 in the first run to just break even. That doesn't really seem like enough money to justify making ANY MRR product, does it? If we expect those runs to last years just in case we want one, its a guaranteed money loser, and yet, we bash these guys regularly. Kudos to Walthers for bringing these kits to market as the market demands, even if your particular need for the item falls in between runs....
Many of the structure 'tooling' are from overseas... in Europe... Denmark (Heljan), Germany (Vollmer, Faller, Kibri, Pola, Piko. The tooling is (sold, leased or used by agreement) to an importer (Atlas, ConCor, Bachmann, Walthers etc). We frequently see stuff once imported directly from the owner of the tooling... later re-run by another party using the tooling. Example as noted above for the trainshed... another is the Car Wash facility and Car Shed done by Bachmann about 10 yrs ago... now done by Heljan... who probably owns the tooling. I don't know if Walthers actually owns the tooling for their structures... several of their N scale buildings have been retired now for 10 years or more. The only thing I can imagine is the tooling has been damaged and the kits are no longer going to be produced. Possible examples of this are: Medusa Cement and Vulcan Manufacturing. I recently mentioned on another thread that I purchased a Back Shop building on eBay that was incomplete. An email to Walthers yielded me the missing part which is specific to only that structure. That leads me to believe they [Walthers] may have the tooling... or perhaps... just some extra parts for the Back Shop.
I know that Tony. Maybe it was worded a little stronger than I had intended. I Just have found that most of the things I am looking for are out of production and I can get something similar to it from another manufacturer. Very few of Walthers kits are the only one out there. I email Walthers about re-running kits and rolling stock every couple of months and get the same "Not going to happen" response but I still do. I would love a long string of the 70' cryo reefers with a pair of GP60s out front but it isn't going to happen. Since they have "no plans" on selling an N version of the ethanol plant I will probably end up using a "North Island Refinery" and "Service Track Structures" kits with Pikestuff buildings for one eventually. My current project of a drywall plant will probably need at least one of the "Western Flood Loader" kits unless I can scratch the conveyor, an option. I can't figure out why if so many people are asking for items to return and buying thier kits why they continue to trickle out re-runs and very few, if any, new products in a scale that has started to make gains on HO for most popular in terms of people and dollars.
Walthers now offers a large line of products present, past and future, and making decisions as to what to re-run I am sure is a priority first decision. I think as N scalers we should all realize that whatever they re-run and when they do, they will be pleasing a small percentage proportion of the entire N scale user population, leaving those "in the lurk" still frustrated as to when and why something hasn't come out in so many years. As an old guy, if I have a special building need, I either try to adapt it from the stuff now available, or locate an old kit, or see something at a swap meet or show that is close. At this time, after due diligence and a lot of patience, I am now wish-listing only one item. Remember that old wood, metal and plastic old time corner gas station with the Texaco horse sign, outdoor hydraulic lift, lots of tires, etc? I had a beauty and thinking it would be no problem to give it to a friend to finish his layout, did it, and haven't seen one since in any form. Right now, I am trying to scratch build a close replica, and we all know when I am done, there will be a kit right in front of me. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
Well, a lot of the kits are still available: N Scale Supply woo woo woo woo woo woo It is about the same with engines: I passed on the Atlas Rock Island GP7 when it came out, so one year later I could not find it anymore. Fortunately, there are also shops elsewhere, like in the UK, who have still the older stock available. There I bought the RI GP7. And Walthers kits: sometimes I find them at LHS's or at fairs.
I just joined Walthers' page on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Walthers/147522319420) and told them how I felt about their lack of N scale products and the lack of quality in the rolling stock department -- albeit in a respectful, manner. They told me that they've discontinued Rapido couplers and told me to send any specific feedback to this email address: custservfb@walthers.com
I don’t know, sometimes I just don’t get it, such as the Central Gas and Supply kit. They brought out a few kits and they sold out in two weeks. Wow I think that would suggest that they are popular and they should make more. They were gone so fast that I didn’t even see them coming. I can’t sit around checking for reruns every day for ten years, I’ll never get anything done.
It's nothing to do with Walthers, but it might give something of an insight into how these folk think (or don't) when they are assessing what market there might be. As some of you know already, I have a OO/HO model tramway as well as the N railway. Some years ago, a producer of plastic kits over here had the bright idea of introducing kit of a particular design. "We think we might sell 1000 over three years," they said. This was at 5GBP each. They sold 10000 in three weeks!!! Regards, Pete
I feel that Walthers has been burned (by their own hand) because they overproduce items and then have to watch them sit on shelves longer than they had anticipated. I think their new concept of 'limited re-runs' solves the overstocking issues they've had on several over-produced items. Still... there are some items which haven't been re-run for a long time. Walthers uses another 'ploy'... they've been jacking up prices on most of the structure kits and then when they don't sell at the elevated MSRP... they then offer them at 40-70% off MSRP... which is really a killer for the hobby retailers and e-tailers that stocked items at the vendors price (~40-45% of MSRP?). I must admit... I've gone to the Walthers site and bought stuff over 50% off MSRP... even if I didn't really need it... but I'm deranged anyway...:we-twitcy: :we2-goofy:
