Newb questions: Is Woodland Scenic's Scenic Cement the same as diluted matte medium? How about using diluted white glue to hold ballast together? Or is there too much sheen with diluted white glue? Also, what are the pros and cons of ballasting before the scenery or after? TIA :thumbs_up:
I don't know about the WS vs matte medium, but on the when to ballast question... If you want the ballast to look a little older and maybe grown over, ballast first, then your ground cover will overlap the ballast for a nice well-worn look. If you want the ballast to look freshly done (high traffic main line) then ballast last for a clean looking main.
Use Elmer's white glue diluted. Not the Elmer's School glue. The regular glue will not leave a shine.
I use elmers white glue. Actually, my last experience with the Matte Medium is what left an ugly glossy shine on my scenery. Fotheringill is right, make sure to get "All Purpose" elmers, not the school type.
WS Scenery Cement and Matte Medium are essentially the same and either is superior to white glue because matte medium remains flexible whereas white glue becomes rigid. Mod Podge is also matte medium in a thicker format - it can be thinned with water. If you got a sheen when it dried, you weren't using MATTE medium. (Gloss Medium is also sold...) I favor ballasting after major scenery.
I have used matte medium on styrene. It will lessen the shine, but not completely do away with it. For ballast, you will be using it only for its adhesive effects. I think it is a lot cheaper to get a gallon of Elmer's at Home Depot (I did about six years ago) and refill the squeeze bottles when necessary. For ballast, I prefer non-pliable for the glue. I don't want the ballast to get loose and then have electrical contact issues. I use it to bond track to cork, as well. Also, I don't know what is needed to take up matte medium after being down for two years, but I recently had to pull up and relay about 18" - 2' of track. Spray with water a few times, let it soak in for several hours and the track came up just fine and ballast was easy to scrape away.
The medium I used came in a Woodland Scenic bottle. When dry, the scenery I used it on appeared wet and reflected highlights. Either way, its a personal preference. Try it out and see what you like better. I use elmers for all my scenery needs and everything comes out exactly as I desire (its cheaper too ).
I would also ballast first. It is easier to straighten out edges after glue has set for an hour or so with a sharp instrument than to push it away from already sceniced work when you have some seepage with the diluted adhesive. Either way, may sure you spray with alchohol or diluted dishwashing detergent to break the surface tension on the dry ballast before applying the glue with an eyedropper. To do otherwise, will create a mess, floaters and frustration. It was a lesson learned on the Lessons Learned Line.
Nicely done buildings. I just took a look. You appear to be using Unitrack. Have you ballasted a test piece not on the layout, yet? You might decide to skip the ballasting.
Thanks! The track is actually Atlas code 80 on WS foam roadbed. What you see is just flash and a newb putting too much caulk to glue the tracks down. Thanks for everyone's input. :tb-wink:
I recommend ballasting before scenery since ballasting is a delicate process that can be tricky if you have to reach over or around scenery. I also prefer Elmer's white glue over matte medium. Matte medium dries much darker than white glue, so much so that it made my ballast look nothing like the color I started with. Also, matte medium can actually get quite expensive and one thing I have learned is that you go through LOTS of glue building a layout. Jamie
I know there are several schools of thought about using caulk vs. Elmer's to lay down the track. I do not do perfect work, by any stretch of the imagination, and need the flexibility of being able to more easily rip up and re lay track. Hence, Elmer's white. Caulk will make sure the track never moves side to side. So will Elmer's once ballasted.
Hi. This is the spot I ran out of WS Scenic Cement and switched to diluted white glue. See where it start :tb-tongue: Diluted white glue mix can look glossy with the right angle under lights. I don’t see the gloss until I look for it. In fact, I only noticed just now because of posts in this thread saying so. Perhaps it’s just my mix ( 1/3 white glue, 1/3 water and 1/3 70% isopropyl alcohol ) or I laid down one to many layer.
No presoaking needed if you have 1/3 each. Just shake it up in the EYEDROPPER BOTTLE before you carefully and sparingly apply with the eyedropper. Don't just use a big sprayer. In your pictures, I don't see any shine at all. Maybe I am old and everything looks dull, but I really don't see a difference.
Most issues I read about regarding ballast seem to center on the Woodland Scenics product, which is ground up and dyed walnut shells. If you were to use real rock (I use Arizona Rock and Mineral) you'd find most of the problems disappear. I no longer have to presoak using alcohol - just apply the matte medium (with a drop of detergent) and watch it soak in. Minimum fuss, and fast. When you're working on a basement sized layout, you learn faster ways to get things done...
I do soak it properly with raw isopropyl alcohol prior to applying the mix. It may not be needed per se, especially if you start from the bottom of the ballast’s slope and progressively work your way up, but it work so much better like that. The mix is heavier than the ballast so it moves around for a blink. Much more goofy proof, too. Soak it first! I’ve put 1/3 isopropyl in my mix solely to get more bang for my bucks. It evaporate very quickly anyway, leaving behind what is essentially a plain 50-50 mix of water and glue. I would have gone 100% WS scenic cement if I could afford the $8 per bottle it cost around here (!). That way, if something go wrong, I’d have something else to blame than myself!:tb-tongue:
Try this one. That’s when I put as much light as I have on it and photograph at the right angle. It’s subtle, but it’s there.
