Over on the N Scale Forum there is good chat about "Arriving soon, MT Heavyweights" Arriving soon, MT Heavyweights - TrainBoard.com Very much needed in Z. John
I MIGHT buy in Z: The Blue Comet The Southern Crescent The Daylight colors on a heavyweight consist The New York Two-Tone Grey, with that itty-bitty carolina-blue stripe The Special Cardinals consist they put together in the 20's for a run NY to Chicago, all coaches in red. But I wouldn't spend one nickle on them in z scale, unless they put metal wheels, copper pickup fingers and led lights inside them. These ain't no boxcars, the breathtaking beauty of a passenger consist is at night with the lighted cars passing by a lighted town on your pike. I don't buy MTL streamliners at the present for the same reason; no lights, in this the age of supermicro electronics and nano-watt consumption leds. MTL: buy a set of the Japanese lighted passenger cars in Z off ebay, see how its done, and Git R Done!
These are on my short list of projects. Trying to finish up the gaggle of cars and engines we are working on now. I doubt we would go the route of having track pick up for interior lighting because of the huge cost associated with that type of tooling. There are other ways of doing this that we are looking into. I just need to be sure we have something that is affordable. If the volume of Z were close to N...then we might be able to justify the cost. But Z units are not there yet and the ROI is too long to sell to management. Joe MTL
Does anyone out there know the gigundous costs of tooling up for z scale heavyweight passenger cars? It has to be done with plastic injection molding. Resin won't cut it (that's been tried), we tried photo-etced brass - forget that, because out of the acid too soon and rivets are softballs, out of the acid too late and presto! No more rivets. There is however, a way to get around some of the costs and produce an item that's going to make SOMEONE a lot of money! Heavyweight passenger cars are quite standard in prototype and can be painted for almost every railroad in the US and Canada. I would welcome talking with Joe D out there in Rogue River land about cost effective methods that he might be able to sell to management. P.S. My pasta sauce is Cornell Red!
Joe D. Follow this thread. You might be surprised. Heavywights are possible in Z Add more garlic to your pasta sauce too: make it Cornell Red like your Uncle Guido.
Generally in the 30K to 4oK range unless you go overseas and it may be less. Based on our experience with the N scale versions, I think this cost given the size might be close. You are also looking at a 6-10 month tooling cycle...lots of new things need to be made to pull these off. Again, already working on how and when to do these...agree we need them badly. Joe MTL
Hi Joe, Yes, probably 40K for starters. You certainly don't need wheel wipers for lighting pickup as you know of other methods. But consider this before cutting steel, there are enough standard componets on heavyweight cars that can be replicated in parts rather than single cavities for each car. The design variables are always the sides. Roofs and underbodies are similar except for length. Also, there was really only two or three different ends to these cars. The biggest problem is always designing these from the bottom up i.e. trucks and the clearence swing to aviod steps, and particularly the strap-steps on head end cars. Have a glass of chianti and sleep on it.
I used to think that until I did the research for our N scale cars. Yes, if you did the cars pre air-conditioning then you could simplify the roof molds and some of the underframe components. But, since we don't have much in the way of Steam available you need to go with the later designs. When you throw that monkey into the mix then it gets really complicated and you end up having to do different roofs for each type of car...even the arch and the way they fold into the ends are different. Then you have to deal with the underframe...what version of AC are you installing and how does that change the tooling from one car to the next. There are modular ways to do this, but the more parts you have the more time you spend in assembly and the cost goes higher. Sides are an issue. Pullman standard sold the cars as modular components and the customer had flexability in what pannels they wanted on the side. Even within the 12-1 family you had some variations. It's easy to get lost in the weeds here, but there are many challenges in designing these cars and you come down to a pucker moment pulling the trigger on a particular prototype. You also have a problem using a single core and replacing sides with windows. You get shallow indents in the face of the core (inside of the car) from the window shut-offs and if the other side has windows that span those, you get flash. That can't be cleaned out in production...so you are sorta pushed into a box design wise. Boxcars and the like...sure we do that, but when you have windows things get complicated. But, we are Micro-Trains and are up to the challenge!! ) My pick would be the 12-1 sleeper because everyone had them, a Single or Duel window Commute Coach, full size Baggage car and an Observation/Business car to start with. Now I just gotta figure out how to make them! Thanks for this thread! Go Cornell!!
Z scale heavyweights Dear Joe, Uncle Guido here. Very wise choices on what you selected to pursue someday in Z. A 12-1 Pullman would be a good starter, as would the period of 1945-1955 as many of these became the so-called "Betterments" with AC ducts on the roofs etc. That would fit in with first generation diesels ( the forthcoming E-8 and the far future FT or f-7 that you promised me 3 years ago ("if I behaved"). If some new steam comes along in Z, well then you might think of the 1920's or 30's. In the meantime, I just got my copy of Model Retailer magazine and saw your ad for the N scale heavyweights. Gosh they look good. I am confident you folks are up to the "challenge" of doing them in Z. You may want to think about lvdonna's suggestion for the roofs however, and also, rather than pick one prototype of a particular railroad, generic representations would still be very acceptable in z scale. Hey Joe......do this for me. From the land of Black Diamonds and Cornell Red.
Dear Joe, Uncle Guido here. Good choice of a 12-1 sleeper for starts, and best period is 1945-1955 to take into account first generations diesels ( your forthcoming E-8 and the FT's or F-3 you promised me 3 years ago if I behaved). lvdonna's suggestion on separate roofs might be a good idea. Also, its probably best not to focus on a particular prototype but rather something generic. That would be acceptable in z scale. Just got my copy of "Model Retailer' magazine. Boy those N scale heavyweights look good. I'm sure you folks are up to the challenge in Z. Hey Joe....do this for Uncle Guido. From the land of Black Diamonds and Cornell Red.
Dear Joe, lv ron's Uncle Nunzio worked up an amortization schedule that he will send you later. This may be useful to "sell" the idea to management. I hear lv ron is not so good these days, (legs & Knees) may not be able to go out to Oregon in April. My Post Office duties and the checkbook likewise. Always the biggest problem in planning new Z items is the demographics. Just how many sales are out there? No one has done a comprehensive study as to the potential number to estimate sales on such new tooling as the heavyweights. Of course I'm confident that if it can be done you folks can pull it off, maybe with a few hiccups and a lot of time, but go for it!! Have to go, tonight it's Genoa Chicken, baked with a lot of onions and garlic, fresh parsely. Cornell Red is still THE color. - donna
