Besides the all brand hype of being more reliable and whatever, why would I want a Slow Moving Switch Machine over a Snap Machine? I would think that anything moving slowly could easily jam up or maybe not switch in time if you had to make a quick decision to turn. I like hearing the snap, because it’s reassuring. I’m not looking for which brand is better I only want to understand why slow.
SOME feel it looks more realistic, and of course, it does. But, I think mostdo that on the final, dream layout as its a little down the priority list under things like scenery! But, if you are building the ultimate layout, why not. Especially in hidden places, I am reassured by the snapping sound myself.
Thanks, I guess my eyes aren’t that good anymore to appreciate it. Or maybe I should pay more attention to them. I was looking at it mechanically. It’s the size of the slow moving machines have always been a problem for me especially on multi level layouts. I’ve been able to solve some problems with long linkages, but that just adds to things that can go wrong.
Twin coil machines have a nasty habit of burning out if the current is left on too long. Plus they usually rely on a spring to maintain pressure on the points which after a time could weaken and the points could open. Slow motion machines usually employ an electric motor turning a jackscrew to apply positive pressure to keep the turnout point rails in position. Usually the force generated is more than sufficient to prevent any jamming. Slow motion machines also usually have provisions for auxilliary contacts for power routing or signals. There is another type of switch machine that uses pneumatic pressure. This is as basic as one can get to operate a turnout. Basically it uses air pressure to operate a piston inside a cylinder. The piston is held in one position by a spring and when activated the air pressure pushes the piston against the spring and moves the points. Releasing the pressure allows the spring to push the piston back and moves the points back to the former position. This system is used today by outdoor garden RR fans as it is impervious to weather and the outdoor environment.
Snap type machines have been known on occasion to cause damage to some switches, by the force of their impacting the switch points against an outer rail. Boxcab E50
In HO the slow mo switch was and is very popular. I mean you can actually see the points move and it moved in a realistic way, with little to no noise. In N scale we seem to be focused on getting the layout up and running and using the faster switch machines. Most layouts are small and the wait time to have a slow mo switch complete it's action, is in some cases intolerable. All of my automated switches on my layout are of the high speed types. With as much track and travel time the trains on my layout have... you'd think I could use the slow mo switches. No, I still need to know that if I hit the electric push button to activate a switch it's moved the points, now. Otherwise, I may have a locomotive and it's train on the floor. I can't afford to replace damaged equipment. The slow mo's were great in HO but I don't see a real need for them in N Scale. Just my thoughts.
Hello, Sleeper. Those before have outlined the advantages of each type actuator, but the "realism" factor depends on your era and how thw switches are "operated" by your LPB crews. "Hand-throw" switches ( manual switch stands OR manual "Armstrong" interlocking switches - with the rods from tower to switch) would move slowly. More modern pneumatic or electro-mechanical POWER switches throw VERY quickly - I've heard the "BANG" of closure rail hitting stock rail from hundreds of feet - followed by the exhaust of the air that moved the points. As an aside - if you have to throw a switch QUICK, you goofed! Power switches are protected by signals or verbal permissions so the switch must be aligned well BEFORE use, and - once permission to use is given by voice or signal display, that permission must be rescinded by voice and/or signal before changing the route and giving "permission to use" again. Hand switches...well...how good is your brakeman ??? :tb-ooh: Bob C.
The problem with snap switches is that they are not a positive confirmed throw. Snap switches can bounce (return back to the original position on a throw) and you don't know for sure which way it is thrown. As mentioned they also burn up fairly regularly. The only snap type switch that seems to be reliable is the Kato's. That said, anything within reach on my layout will be a manual throw. The out of reach turnouts will be either push rod activated manual or tortise. One other point with the Tortise and other motorized types, for those using C55 with powered frogs, the Tortise has the power routing for the frog built in. With snap switch motors, it takes an additional relay to change the frog. Adding the two up gets you close to the price of the Tortise.
If your eyesight is going but your hearing is OK, you can still pick up the sound of the Tortoise. I also understand that the Tortoise is designed to short out once the switch is complete. I don't know the technicals of this but I can state from observation that the moving part of the turnout does not float and is fast against the Stock??? rail.
http://www.humpyard.com/ To my way of thinking this product offers the best of all possible worlds’ You can move it at whatever speed you want. It provides positive position retention and it looks cool on the control panel.
Ok a lot of good points that I hadn’t heard of before like “Snap switches can bounce”, “Snap type machines have been known on occasion to cause damage to some switches” and I did not know that you could hear the Tortoise Machines. The cost and physical size of the Tortoise Machine has always been the biggest factor. I’ve mentioned this before, but the main reason I strayed from code 80 was the Atlas Remote Switches. Now that I know how to swap the Right & Left Hand Remote Switch Machines and turn them upside down for landscaping, I’m OK with that, but I still have trouble with my Passenger cars going through the switches. Actually I think “bounce” just might be a problem with one of my C80 switches. I know I’ve been beating this switch thing (or should I say “turnout”) to death, but I got 3 “N scale” layouts right now and I’m stuck in some sort of rut that I can’t get out of. The layouts include 1 completed Code 80 with Atlas remote snap switches, 1 unfinished Atlas Code 55 Layout and 1 unfinished Kato Unitrack layout. The code 55 waits the Tortoise Switch Machine and the Kato is short most of the switches & curved track pieces. It’s going to cost the same amount of money to complete either one of the two unfinished layouts. The Code 80 Layout can’t run the new Passenger trains that I bought, and I fell committed to the code 55 because of all the work and money I’ve already put into it. I also spent a lot of money on unitrack and it would be easier to complete, but I can’t shake the Code 55 layout. If I were a rich man I think I would hire someone to just get the track down and then maybe I could get motivated again. When setting up my O-scale Christmas layout I was having so much fun that I just covered up the N scale stuff and forgot about it. Ironically I spent as much on a new O-scale train and new track as what it would take to complete one of my N-scale layouts.
You'd think that in the 21st century, modern technology could have a much smaller slow-motion machine!
For me, it is all about realism. I want my switch points to move slow just like the real ones do. Jamie
You know I don’t think I’ve ever seen one switch. My brother-in-law works for Norfolk Southern and he showed me how it was suposed to work but there were trains coming so he did not switch it, plus you have to go through the proper protocol to do it.
Hello. As to me I use ATLAS CODE 55 turnouts machines. I have some closed levels and flat machines are preferable for me. Also at 9 mm slow tortoises are not too effective, because wing's backlash is too smaal for watching slow motion. ABOUT BURNING: Yes, they may leak and fired if Turnout Decoder will suspend or breaked down for a half minute or more. To remove this, I made turnout amplifier with hardware protection of pulse length, and make power supply with breakdown detection, signalisation and protection. ABOUT MOMENTUM: Yes, this switches are mooving fastly, and can damage something. As to me, i have 14 turnouts now at my working part of layout, and had only 1 damage during 1 month of testing. Swich machine was damaged. Inside metallic coil was cracked. I repaired it easiliiy after full reassembling. This momentum may be reduced. I have hardware pulse smoothing in my custom turnout amplifyers. These smoothing also helps me to make less noise to occupancy detectors. These smoothing also generates less noise in time of switching. ABOUT WEAKENING: Now all turnouts works properly and are swiching closely. I tested it during 1 month. May be 1 year needed? ---------- DOES ANYBODY KNOW MORE BUGS OR QUALITY PROPERTIES ABOUT ATLAS CODE 55 TURNOUT SWICH MACHINES? ---------- Vadim.
I am sure it can be made and someone, somewhere is making them from scratch and for a lot less that commercial prices. All that is needed is the knowledge and a soldering tool. Vadim's name comes to mind since he sure as heck seems to know what he is talking about (way over my simple head) when discussing electronics.
sd90ns - Thanks for the link to the Humpyards. They look awesome and I like the manual control aspect.
I am a firm advocate in keeping things as simple as necessary. My experience has been that complexity breeds trouble. A switch machine is a complexity that maybe unnecessry depending on the situation. There are turnouts that utilize a built in spring [called an 'over center' spring] to hold the points against either stock rail. Peco employs this spring action in their turnouts. The points can be set by using one's finger to move the point rails or the tie bar either way. Once moved past center the spring forces the point rail against the stock rail. Simple and inexpensive but for a switching layout or a layout where a turnout is within easy reach it fills the bill.
Selenoid switch machines have quite a bit of force, (think Karate chop) if you handlay turnouts (even if you don't) that quick snap like movement can break a solder joint, (which usually has poor shear strength) (there are ways to circumvent this) On plastic ready to run turnouts its usually not a issue. They (switchmachines) are usually noiser than the motor version, and require additional circuitry to daisy chain together (with an definate increase in power requirements) Its mostly a matter of cost and complexity. Basically to each his own. R
