I'm leaning toward digitrax super empire builder extra, a second FT402, UT90 for IR reception. With a power supply this setup runs nearly $600. I was hoping to get into it for a bit less. I have some modules with plugs installed from a group I belonged to about 6 or 8 years ago. I plan to use this on an HO switching layout with 2 to 4 locos running at a given time, no consisting or helper service. I may in the years ahead (5+ years at the minumum) go to a mainline N layout wiht helpers and consists, but I don't want to overbuy now on the off chance that maybe some day I'll use the features. Is there something better suited to my needs than Digitrax? I want walkaround for 2 or 3 operators and prefer wireless. I don't have plans to run signals or switch throwing cabaility at this time, but adding switch throwing is a maybe at some point (the layout is only 2' deep so reach isn't an issue) Any input/experience welcome. I do have two DCC locos - a proto2000 SW9 and a bachman GP40. Both have been run on a DCC layout in the past and neither will run on pure DC today...but that may be another question altogether.
If you're only going to run a handful of locomotives, why not just get a Zephyr? It costs about $150 (MSRP), and you can add the wireless functions to it with readily-available accessories. If you went hog-wild, you could probably spend $400.
From Tony's Train Exchange... PLEASE NOTE: If you are planning to use Sound decoders, do Consisting or use Helper Services or Install Decoders yourself, we strongly recommend you consider the SUPER CHIEF which has the important Decoder Read-Back capability on the Program Track Circuit that is lacking on the Super Empire Builder. This feature allows you to READ the settings in the decoder so that you are not 'programming in the dark'. It also allows you to test your Decoder Installation without putting the Decoder at RISK. On a good note, the Zephyr comes with software to do all of that and then some. ratled
The zephyr appeats to be a console based controler so I'd need 2 walkaround throttles plus it. I suppose I can go with the cheapest throttles but it's not that much more to get the better ones (wiht lcd readout) but two of them will bet $300 - $500ish for a total (with iR receiever), which I guess is better. but for $85 more I can get the better (empire builder) system. Am I figuring that right?
Have you considered the Lenz 90 for an option. Around $200 and has a corded throttle that wil allow about 6' of freedom and comes packing 5A of useful power for your layout. That is the system that I use and am quite happy with the results
I wouldn't consider the Super Empire Builder to be a "better" system, as it does NOT provide a separate programming track and can NOT read back CV settings as the Zephyr can. Yes, with a Z you would need external throttles, but for switching use you don't really need the LCD display so UT throttles would be fine. The display on the Zephyr should be sufficient for programming tasks etc. Comparison for IR systems with two walkaround (IR) throttles: SEB (DB150, DT402, UP5): $285 Power supply (PS515): $40 Addl throttle (UT4): $65 IR receiver (UR90): $35 ------------------------------- SEB Total: $425 Zephyr (DCS50): $155 Power supply (PS315): (Included) Plug in panel (UP5): $16 Throttles (UT4, 2): $130 IR Receiver (UR90): $35 -------------------------------- Zephyr Total: $336 Although you give up a few slots (10 vs 22) and a couple of Amps, with a Zephyr based system you get a full featured programming and read-back capability, which most folks consider invaluable. Like many, I started out with an EB as an entry system (there was no Z at that time), but as soon as the Z came out, my DB150 was relegated to booster service only. Also, if you want to go tetherless (and you can afford it), you should seriously consider one of the radio options, as IR can be tricky due to line-of-sight restrictions. Whatever you decide, enjoy!
Not sure of the current draw on HO engines but we measured a few N scale engines yesterday on an NTRAK layout. 5 Kato F units with 5 MRC sound decoders (not mine) installed plus 3 Kato AC4400's with Digitrax decoders pulled .92 amp. The AC4400's had 2 dozen autoracks in tow (each weighted to 2oz.). The F units had an 85 car assortment in tow. This was well below the 3 amp setting on the circuit breaker. Martin Myers
I was under the impression a seperate programming track was a PITA (my 'experience' is limited and 5+ years old now). What I've recently read seems to indicate the opposite. Except for initial setup of a loco, what do you use the prog track for? You're probably right on the throttles. If/when I ever get a layout with a yard the zephry could be a cab there, or used on my current plan for running staging I suppose. I saw the readback bit in the Chief I believe. I can see the benefit for sure. I've heard good and bad about the IR - most depends on how your layout is laid out. Mine would be a 'c' shape with one leg long and the shorter leg 2 sided. I once heard that mounting the IR receiver in the ceiling helped a lot, or just put in more than one. Radio was just coming out when I went AWOL from the hobby and it's still a bit more costly...if I've assembled the right parts... zephyr $160 UT4R X2 $200 UR92 $130 ============== Total $490 or about a $150 premium over IR setup. I have to check what wiring I have now on the modules - there are panel plugs (4 or 8, i forget) but I don't recall how they're tied to eachother - I assume ethernet-like cables but I'll have to dig into them some. Thanks!
Note that the UR92 supports duplex radio so the throttle would be a UT4D (The UT4R is simplex radio, which requires a UR91). Confusing, huh?
I really like the programming track on the Zephyr. It is a safe and easy way to check decoder installation, and it is an easy way to check and change CV settings without disrupting stuff running on the layout, especially if there are several operators wandering around. One point to consider on radio vs IR is whether there is any chance you might want to use the throttles anywhere else.
The Z is a pretty good entry set. Word of caution, if you plan on getting into sound decoders, the Z will not read back tsunami cv's. Digitraxx can not or will not say why.
the sound i last heard sounded weak and kinda dumb to me. I was more into N then and sound wasn't something I was at all interested in. Now that I'm doing HO I guess it's more practical in some ways, but still not something I"m all that interested in - but that can always change I suppose.
That problem is not specific to the Zephyr. Many command stations will not read back Tsunami decoders without a programming booster, that is why Soundtraxx makes a programming booster. The problem is the Tsunamis require more current than the NMRA recommended amount for a programming track.
I built the NanoX-S88 system. Cost me about $120.00 to build. I have computer interface ( Gen-Li ) and the NanoX-S88 ( Command Station ). I use JMRI. DecoderPro is awesome. I dont have a layout at this time but am going to build one this spring/summer. For more info on DIY DCC systems and accessory's go to Paco's website http://www.tinet.cat/~fmco/
Actually they will tell you if you ask. A more correct statement would be: Soundtraxx Tsunamis will not allow readback on many DCC systems. Soundtraxx will happily sell you a programming booster to correct that issue. They program just fine on the main and the results can be seen (heard) immediately and tweaked some more if needed. Read back is really over rated. I have never found a need to take time reading the wrong value when the correct value can simply be written. Martin Myers
Digatrax's has 30% of the market share! The other 30 brands share the rest. when something breaks or doesn't work as advertized you have to MAKE a conference call because manufacturing incompatibility, its a real pain. Digatrax's one call, Start to Finish! Respectfully ~AlanC
I'm hoping this is the right place to post this question. (First post) I'm new to Nscale (and model railroads) and am learning alot over the last month or so. I went to a seminar a week ago put on by the local club which was on DCC. He mentioned that the Zephyr was a good entry system. My question is how many switches, etc,. can I have on this system. I am planning on running maybe 3 engines at a time and would like to have switches and maybe warning signals. Can I run all this from a Zephyr? Do I need a decoder for each switch location? Also, the Zephyr has one speed control but can control more than one engine. How do you switch between the different engines? Thanks in advance for your help and for putting up with the newbie questions.
Most of your questions can find their answers here...... http://www.digitrax.com/prd_zep_basic_set.php Just click on the user manual PDF towards the bottom of the page for the most complete information. In the short answer, all you ask can be done. The number of turnouts supported by the Zephyr is different from the number of stationary addresses the throttle will support. The answer is 999 stationary addresses are available. This is the address space you have for stationary decoders and other accesory devices like the signaling devices that may need an address. Switch motors are controlled either manually, by electrical switches, or via DCC using stationary decoders. Only the turnouts you want to control via DCC would need a stationary decoder. As for selecting another locomotive for the built in throttle, you just have to press a few buttons to do that. You can add on to the system by getting a separate DT400 series throttle, it will allow you to control 2 locomotives at once, plus the Zephyr and you can control 3 trains at the same time. The other thing you have is the ability to expand if needed. Hope this helps!
I have been using the NCE Power Cab for two years. It can read back the standard Tsunami. Micro-Tsunami. LokSound standard, LokSound Micro and Digitrax just fine. I like the program track option as I install my own decoders in case of a wiring error. I recently pick up the USB interface to be able to use JMRI/PC option. Rich
