I picked up a pair of LL 0-6-0t switchers on e-bay a few weeks ago. The two week long wait for them to arrive was less than desirable. Then there was the added surprise that the motor was absent from one of the engines. The complete description reads: "Pair of AT&SF steam switchers, one runs, the other does not. In cases." Below is the only images provided. When sitting in front of you it's very clear one is missing something inside the shell (the motor occupies the cab, no motor = empty cab) And to top it all off, I even sent this seller a message before I ever placed my bid to confirm whether or not all parts are present, to which I was replied: "As far as I can tell. The problem is the one unit does not run. It may just need cleaning." So what do you think? Does "Does not run" = "no motor"? Should I report this item "not as described"? 1. I am in the process of contacting the seller before hand.. so far nothing. 2. The seller has a history of many MRR items, so I do not think ignorance is an acceptable excuse.
If the seller knows anything about MRR it should have been obvious that there was no motor in one loco, even from just a weight differential. I would vote for "not at described". What relief would you want?
"One runs - one does not" - for a person who sells MRR stuff, he/she should have been a little more clearer. As for contacting the seller - it may be the time of the year making it hard to reach. I would definately challenge this.
Mark, Definitely challenge, if you don't get a response by the end of the week. But, I would wait a few days, because of the holiday.
Wait for a response from the seller. You must give the seller the opportunity to make amends. You may have to wait another 10 to 14 days before filing a dispute. The problem I see is that in the listing, he said one runs, the other doesn't. That is exactly the case so his listing is 'technically' correct. The items ARE as described. However, I don't know if e-Bay considers questions/answers to be a part of the listing. If so, you have grounds for a dispute. It doesn't make any difference if the seller is an expert at model railroading or if he's totally in the dark. The only thing that matters, in terms of a dispute, is whether his description is accurate. The fact that it took TWO WEEKS for you to get your items tells me this seller is not professional in either model railroad sales OR customer service! This may turn out to be a protracted situation. You must decide what you want to accomplish: return of merchandise for a full refund (with or without return shipping charges), partial return of merchandise with partial refund, refund without return of merchandise (not likely), partial refund without return of merchandise. Once you decide what you want, present your proposal to the seller. If the seller refuses to accept any of your proposals and doesn't offer his own proposal, or simply refuses to respond, file a dispute with e-Bay. You have nothing to lose that you haven't already lost. You have the possibility of winning the dispute and getting your money back. Reality check: resign yourself to the fact that this is probably going to cost you more money for a solution. If e-Bay resolves the dispute for you, you may still have to pay return shipping before you get your money refunded and the seller may not have to reimburse you for that expense. I am a modest seller of MRR items on e-Bay. If this were my listing, I would admit having made a mistake in the listing and either offer a partial refund without return of merchandise or return of merchandise with a full refund including the cost of return postage. Depending on how much the auction was worth, I might even give a full refund WITHOUT return of merchandise. My reputation on e-Bay would be worth more than the auction amount. Hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction, Mark. Sorry you are having this experience. Unfortunately, while some e-Bay sellers have professional standards, many more do not.
Did you get both for a bargain? How much to buy a replacement motor? I would communicate to the seller then decide. Personally i probably would just see about a replacement motor rather than a confrontation
Paul, I respectfully disagree with you about a confrontation. I give leeway to many e-Bay sellers, but there are a few unscrupulous sellers on e-Bay (rolling my eyes on that one!). These sellers are not professional in any sense of the word. They sell junk at inflated prices and take advantage of buyers by carefully wording their listing definitions, purposefully making the definitions vague. It is these sellers who need to be confronted. They ruin the e-Bay experience for many buyers. If the seller in question here is honorable, he will do the right thing for Mark. If he is not honorable, he should be removed from e-Bay. The only way to do that is to file a dispute. With enough disputes, e-Bay will suspend the seller. Only Mark can decide if the auction is worth enough to take any action. As I said earlier, had this been my auction listing, it would have already been resolved in Mark's favor with resorting to e-Bay. But that's just me and how I want to do business.
Without having all the info it's hard to judge, but "The seller has a history of many MRR items, so I do not think ignorance is an acceptable excuse." may be unfair. If it is a relative who is trying to dispose of (eg.) his/her parent's estate they may well have a substantial history of selling MRR items - but still be clueless about the stuff. If that is the case I'd expect them to be apologetic and honourable. But as said above, the description and communications are technically (and legally?) correct, so you may be better to just put it down to experience and move on regardless of the outcome of your challenge.
The only case for misrepresentation could be made for the claim that all parts are included. A motor & final drive is/are a critical component to a model locomotive. If it were missing, it should have been stated/admitted in answer to the question over the completeness of the item. Methinks the motor was harvested by 'someone' for a transplant.
Thanks for the replies everyone. As far as my end, jtudor simply asked "What relief would you want?" Well, mostly I want the motor, but unfortunately I think Crandell is right, someone harvested it for a transplant and I'll never see it no matter how far I push. Ultimately, the final price of 11 dollars on the auction is still a heck of a steal, even for just 1 saddle tank (they more often go for about $15-20 ea. used). So to have received a second piece which has everything except the motor, no matter how dissapointing when expecting that motor, is still worth the buy, therefore by definition not worth my time in trying to get any compensation. The question now is: Should this my feedback be "Not as described"? When also considering the 2 weeks from payment to item received, I'm definitely leaving no better than neutral. I agree with dgwinup when he said some sellers "take advantage of buyers by carefully wording their listing definitions, purposefully making the definitions vague." Does this sound like such a case? Yes, it can be quite a hassle sometimes. But then again, read paragraph 2 of this post. Some bargains are still worth the hassle.
"...therefore by definition not worth my time in trying to get any compensation...." I restarted in model railroading about six years ago. The three times that I used E-Bay were when I started and I was not satisfied with any of the experiences. The pain in the butt of filing a complaint and then shipping back after being on line at the post office just ain't worth it. I have not used an auction site since and will not in the future. It just isn't worth the uncertaintly and then the subsequent hassle. Keep it and get on with your life. The bottom line is actually the bottom line- How much is your leisure time worth to you?
I must be blessed, I have made over 100 "buy" transactions on Ebay and had 1 problem, which was quickly rectified. But again, I am very careful about whom I'm buying from, the item description, method of payment and the sellers feedback. In this case the seller seems to want to make it right, the question is what feedback should Mystere give.
Mark, Look at this as an opportunity to get out those rust colored chalks from Bragdons and turn this non-runner into a 'rusty hulk scene' on that spare yard track you never use. Most of us have this track so here is a great chance to put it to use. Cheers, Jim CCRR/Socalz44
Yes this is a valid reason to dispute that item was misrepresented; check the price of a Motor and attempt to get a partial refund based upon that price. Sorry to hear that Mystere.
