FVM gevos on their way to your LHS

davidone Dec 23, 2009

  1. Braxton

    Braxton TrainBoard Member

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    I'm not expecting 100% perfect running equipment. I expect a good product out of the box and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a good level of quality on any product. Would you always approach ANY purchase you make with the mindset, "it might need some work"? I don't think so. All I'm saying is, we shouldn't be lowering the bar on quality.

    People buy Honda and Toyota because they've historically been quality vehicles. Though that has changed recently. As for buying a car for $100, I wouldn't consider it.
     
  2. Carl Sowell

    Carl Sowell TrainBoard Supporter

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    Now boys! What does automobiles and microwaves have to do with N scale trains?

    The cold hard fact is that as a nation we the citizens and railroaders are willing to let the quality bar be lowered for price and expediency. If we as buyers could get away from "instant gratification" possibly the manufacturers would not attempt to be the first to bring "it" to market and would have more time for quality control.

    I hav a problem with a new GEVO and I have contacted and rcv'd reply from Matt. I am willing to give FVM the benefit of the doubt for the time being. If it is not rectified then I will raise h_ _ _.

    By the way, I just had an experience with a new washer and dryer ( quite pricy ) from Samsung. The washer did not work "out of the box". So the quality issue is very prevalant everywhere. Now, what does that have to do with N scale trains?
     
  3. Train Kid

    Train Kid TrainBoard Member

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    Somehow I get the feeling this thread will end badly. :D
     
  4. seanm

    seanm TrainBoard Member

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    Train Kid.. so far it has been pretty good back and fourth without too much ill will. I think there are two camps.

    1. Better work GREAT out of the box no matter what.
    2. Willing to take a chance and give the MFG a chance to make it right.

    I think both have some good support. BTW, not all of my Kato or Atlas have worked first time out of the box either.
     
  5. Westfalen

    Westfalen TrainBoard Member

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    It's FVM's first N scale locomotive, if ten years and ten or more locomotives later there are still QC and design problems like other manufacturers I'll decline from naming there might be something to complain about. From what I read Matt from FVM is an N scale railroader himself so I think he will be looking at any faults.
     
  6. Train Kid

    Train Kid TrainBoard Member

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    Fain enough. For me though I'm not willing to take a chance with my $100+ (loco = decoder). I'll just wait until things settle down. While we have the problem of the item selling out and not being available there will always be something else coming along that we "have to have"...
     
  7. sludge

    sludge TrainBoard Member

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    Has anybody discovered what causes the noise? Is it a gear mesh problem or possible burr or plastic flash on a axle part? motor cradle not seated right?
     
  8. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    I trust the FVM.
    Regardless of the issues if I had the cash I would buy two.
     
  9. Braxton

    Braxton TrainBoard Member

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    The biggest gripe I have in all of this is people saying that we should have to tinker with the locomotives to get them to work. I guess my point is, would you spend time fixing that washer you just got? No, you'd call the company to get someone to fix it right? Just because this is 'model railroading' doesn't mean we should have to work with everything we get before we can run it. I just think it's bad practice to lower the standard of quality. I'd prefer a company take the time to make sure the product is good instead of rushing it to market. This is FVM's first loco, I'm not going to boycott them or anything, in fact I prefer to support them. They'll get the issues fixed for the next run.
     
  10. jagged ben

    jagged ben TrainBoard Member

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    My biggest gripe is that we have this inane conversation every time a new locomotive or manufacturer enters the market. My second biggest gripe is that I think you and others are making a straw man argument.

    - Nobody on this forum has ever told anyone else not to take advantage of
    a manufacturers warranty.

    - In my experience over %90 of new locomotives run great out of the box, so nobody is so much as implying we have to expect to tinker with all or even the majority of new locos.

    - What a lot of people have said is that they either don't mind or enjoy tinkering with their locomotives, whether new or not. There's nothing wrong with that.

    - If people are going to make negative comments in a public forum about a problem with a new locomotive (something which I think accomplishes nothing, btw), then they ought to expect that some people are going to make helpful tinkering suggestions. The people who make the helpful suggestions have done nothing that deserves flaming in return, yet that's often what they get.

    I have no problem with anyone returning a problem locomotive to the manufacturer, and all I ask is that people who decide to solve their problems in other ways get the same respect. Here's a probably quixotic suggestion, but how about the next time a new locomotive or manufacturer enters the market, we DON'T have this conversation again?
     
  11. mcjaco

    mcjaco TrainBoard Member

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    You'd have to tinker with it to find out. We can't possibly do that, it should run perfectly out of the box. Just like a CD player, or a washer!

    The washer versus model train locomotive is a weak argument. I'd absolutely have someone come out and look at my washer if it wasn't operating correctly, and I have done so in the past. I've got no idea how to fix a HE washer, as there's too many parts and the technology is beyond me. But to say you should no be expected to tinker with a model locomotive and its relative small amount of parts, and a design that's been pretty much unchanged for fifty years to get it to run, is ridiculous.

    I'll say it again, locomotives and rolling stock nowadays are of such higher quality than they were even ten years ago, I think we've got modelers that expect too much. Part of this hobby has always been tinkering with locos, rolling stock, structures, etc. We just tend to have to do a lot less of it nowadays because of the high reliability of these models. Which in turn makes us wack out when things don't run right, straight out of the box.


    Or perhaps start writing posts when you have a something that is really excellent? In other forums I post in we've had "Anti-Rant" threads to help balance out the pissing and moaning.
     
  12. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    So let me see if I got this right.

    You buy a new loco...and out of the box the handrail had fallen off. You would send it back to be fixed because you wouldnt 'tinker' with it a little and reattch the handrail?

    You buy a new loco...and out of the box you find a MT coupler broke in shipping. You would send it back to be fixed because you wouldnt 'tinker' with it a little and grab one of the 100 couplers in your arsenal of parts and fix it yourself?

    You buy a new loco...and out of the box the loco runs fine but the lights dont work. You would send it back to be fixed because you wouldnt 'tinker' with it a little and take the shell off to find the lightboard just lossened up in shipping?

    You buy a new loco...and out of the box the loco runs noisey. You would send it back to be fixed because you wouldnt 'tinker' with it a little and find that shell isnt snapped all the way down on the frame ?

    I just dont get it ! No one is sugesting major surgery on a new loco...just some minor 'tinkering' if needed.


    .
     
  13. Braxton

    Braxton TrainBoard Member

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    It's about as inane as adults arguing about the Transformers toys on the Internet. I haven't been around here long but I've seen some real crazy things at a few of the big Transformers forums. This is the Internet, not everyone is going to search to find out about something and these little discussions always come up. It's inevitable.


    I guess I'm thinking differently about the 'tinkering' aspect of things here.

    I got a little carried away, all I'm trying to say is we shouldn't be lowering the standards of quality.
     
  14. seanm

    seanm TrainBoard Member

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    I understand why some folks would not want to tinker. I have to admit, I have tinkered something well enough the mfg would not taeke it back. :-( But in general, I anm not opposed to pulling the shell and seeing what's doin' in there. Others are not as comfortable as I am. I don't think they should be critizised for it though. Those that say if their $100 isn't perfect out of the box goes back to the MFG are going to spend more time shipping then I am and if they buy many locomotives will eventually find out about every companies shipping policies.
     
  15. swissboy

    swissboy TrainBoard Member

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    You may be correct for North America, but certainly not for Europe. People would not be willing to tinker with brand new stuff as they would lose their warranty. Thus, manufacturers have long been producing reliable high quality stuff. But the prices have been quite a bit higher as a consequence. So if you get a fine and reliable engine model in N scale for around 100$ you are actually spoiled by European standards.

    RTR has basically been the only standard in Europe, that may be why people in NA are more willing and comfortable with tinkering on a out-of-the-box model. That kit spirit still lingers on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2010
  16. mcjaco

    mcjaco TrainBoard Member

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    And anyone that's been modeling for the past ten years or more knows that the standards of quality have gone up exponentially over that period of time. And so has the bickering about things "not being ready to run."
     
  17. Charlie Vlk

    Charlie Vlk February 5, 2023 In Memoriam

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    I've been a Model Railroader my entire life starting with wooden push toys, then Marx wind-ups, American Flyer, HO before getting into N Scale in 1964.
    The only trains I don't recall having problems with were the ones made out of pine.
    Every brand of Model Railroad equipment has some problems. Even if they work perfectly before being packaged, shipping them from the other side of the world and the handling before you get the model can introduce problems.
    With a reasonable design most of these can be easily set right (lube that migrated to the wrong places, contacts that got bent, etc.).
    I don't know of any brand of N Scale locomotives that are 100 percent great out of the box....... ALL brands have problems.
    I would not want MicroSoft or Maytag to be making Model Railroad equipment. They would not touch our business because it is too demanding and the profit margins are just not there... and the marketplace is very small. The customer service that we get from our manufacturers is far better than we put up with today in consumer goods and services.... especially considering how relatively high-tech and specialized the products are.
    Luckily, we have people in the industry that enjoy the Hobby and provide products for us anyway.
    Charlie Vlk
     
  18. DRGWTennPass

    DRGWTennPass TrainBoard Member

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    My Two Cents


    First - Hats off to Matt for a great product line, locos, cars and wheels alike.
    I won't own a GEVO due to era (1975-1985), but have friends that have them, and they are great.

    Now let's talk about quality. Kato set a standard many years ago, and they DO NOT live up to it. Case in point: I bought all six Heritage SD70ace's. NONE of them worked out of the box.

    ...and how about the last 9 Digitrax decoders I have purchased. Something wrong with every one of them (problems come in batches??)

    Go buy a GEVO and put a TCS decoder in it!
     
  19. Train Kid

    Train Kid TrainBoard Member

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    Well, you're just having a time, huh? Kinda sucks!
     
  20. CSXDixieLine

    CSXDixieLine Passed Away January 27, 2013 In Memoriam

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    Ouch! I would have a hard time believing you except for the fact that I also had a string of 4-5 Digitrax decoders in a row that had to go back for replacement. But 9? I would probably just give up and join in on my son's wooden Thomas layout! Jamie
     

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