Hello! I have a long statistic of riding trains on my test layout. Layout and rails were cleaned as well some times. But after approximately 10-20 new trips of every train i still have dark dirt which enveloped wheels like plasticine. This dirt sufficiently reduces current pickup. As a result - This is too unconvenient to make wheel cleaning so often. Questions: 1) What's the origin of this dirt? 2) How to remove or diminish this process? 3) How about Your period of good riding up to wheels are becoming dirty? 4) Which structure of dirt do You have? (like i have(like plasticine) or You have another structure?) My assymption: This is may be silver sulphide mixed with some else like polymerized loco-oil which looks like plasticine? ------------ Vadim
Some say that plastic wheels (and static electricity) contribute to dirty track - some have replaced all their plastic wheels with metal wheels.
Thanks, Tim, but i have only metalic wheels. I exchanged wheels immediately after receiving my american cars which ordered from USA. All my europian cars already had metallic wheels. ------------ Vadim
One explanation that I have heard is that the black dirt is from very small sparks from electrical arching between the wheels of the locomotive and the track. The arching happens most on rough and scratched track, usually caused by abrasive track cleaners. Some people actually polish the tops of their rails with various metal polishes to get a mirror finish. This seems to prevent the sparks and thus the build up of black dirt. Once the black dirt is on the rails the wheels on the cars pick it up. From my experience on my test track loop, this explanation seems to be true.
I remember faintly that there even was a thread about this with instructions how to do it... I'll look and see if I can find it... Edit: I found it: the product is No-Ox and it is sold here: NO-OX-ID A Special The thread where it got mentioned is here: Track Cleaning - TrainBoard.com hth Michael
1) What's the origin of this dirt? ------------------------------ I will try to explain this based on my research and a well written article in MR several years ago.. The dirt on our tracks is from electrical residue,human skin flakes,animal skin flakes,bug droppings,microscopic dust,household dust etc. ---------------------------- 2) How to remove or diminish this process? --------------------------- Many say converting to metal wheels help but,I am no longer in that camp since my metal wheels gets dirty as well. IMHO its a endless battle that will never be completely won. --------------------------- 3) How about Your period of good riding up to wheels are becoming dirty? --------------------------- I found my HO metal wheels needs cleaning every 2 years just like my plastic wheels.I have found no need to clean my N Scale wheels. --------------------------- 4) Which structure of dirt do You have? (like i have(like plasticine) or You have another structure?) -------------------------- Actually we have the same type of dirt on our tracks.There is no difference. ------------------------- Now thanks to the score of magazine articles on cleaning track I fully believe modelers worry far to much over cleaning track or converting to metal wheels. I have used Kato's Unitrack now for 6 months and have never had to clean it and still have good electrical contact and I use plastic wheels. On my past ISLs and on the club layout we use 91% alcohol and a clean 2"x2" white cloth for track cleaning.
Hello to All! Brakie, thanks for information. As to me i polished my rails to mirror as well. I have about 20 - 30 cycles of run of one train. Then electric pickup becomes sufficiently worse, and i start cleaning tracks and all wheels. How do You achieve so long cleanness? I have dark plasticine structure, which are pressed around work surface of all wheels and on the tops of all rails. ----------- Thanks, Vadim.
I would also assume that not all dirt is created equal. The amount of particulates in a given house, especially in the air, depend upon the maintenance of the the HVAC system, humidity, and geographic location. I don't have any N setup yet, but I did dig my X-mas Lionel trainboard down from the rafters of the garage and get it running this year. It took a bottle of track cleaner & 4 Scotch-brite super fine sanding pads to remove the oxidiation to get enough contact for the train to run around a 4x8 oval with two hookup points. Pennsylvania has humid summers and I live near a 4-lane highway, so theres always dirt in the air. It turned into a black goo that clung to the rails worse than the surface rust.
I don't remember when the last time I cleaned my layouts track completely. I use a car with a masonite slider pad underneith (a la John Allen) in each train I run. These pads pick up quite a bit of shmutz from the rails. The pads can be cleaned with a fine sandpaper and each car has several pads and can be changed when necessary.
How do You achieve so long cleanness? ----------------------------------------------- First my HO is used at the club and it sees sufficient run time. As for the period between cleaning..Simple really..You see every 2 years I inspect my HO freight cars and that's when I do wheel cleaning. I don't really understand this phenomenon.. Some of the wheels have very little build up while other have a lot.This applies equally well to plastic or metal wheels...I thought it might be due to the different plastic or metal use for making the wheels but,remembered all my plastic wheels are Athearn and my metal wheels are Atlas,Athearn and P2K. Back to N Scale..I never found the need to clean freight car wheels in N. My locomotive wheels are clean on a as needed bases.
Thanks to all. As i think, there are some additional examinations of dirt needed. -------- Thanks, Vadim
I have found that metal wheels take a little longer to build up the dirt-dust crust. The plastic wheels ie. MTL, once they get a ring of crust on them the stuff can be removed from the wheel tread fairly well with a toothpick. But I have noticed that there is a very thin and fine ring that I can never fully remove without scraping with a knife.
I used to have a lot of issues with dirt buildup on my rails. I would do a good cleaning job, then run trains for a few days and get two black, grimy lines on my fingers if I rubbed them along the rails. My layout is in a finished, temperature controlled (window air conditioner + space heater) basmement but not fully climate controlled. Also, we have had a LOT of wet weather in our region. I installed a good quality dehumidifer and since then, I seldom have problems with gunk building up on the rails. In fact, the only time I have had problems with dirty track this year is when I cut a bunch of hardboard in the layout room and the dust got evrywhere. Prior to the dehumidifer, I had to clean track pretty much before every running session. Jamie
This sort of conversations happens all the time. It seems to me the reason there are so many different experiences with dirt is that every environment we put our layouts in is different. Some of the different factors are: Humidity, dust, type of dust, quality of track work, type of track, number of insects, nearness to salt air (ocean), locomotive maintenance, lubricants used, scenery materials and the list goes on and on. I have seen some people claim they never clean their rails or wheels and others who have to do it all the time... what explains the difference? All I can think of that would make the same rails and engines act different is the environment. There will never be one answer to cleaning and maintaining all track installations. What works for YOU is the most important.
More time, pickup excellent. The dirt on track, is a regular problem. I have applied a way, to make movement, on the polluted rails, more time. For this purpose it is necessary to spoil shell a diesel locomotive. It is necessary to drill small holes, for the wires which are passing through it. I took a drill 1mm, and twisted his hands. Without application a drill electric. It is very easy. The main thing to make holes beautiful, and symmetrically to holes, in a correct place. I connect among themselves the electric chain, two, three, four, five units. Pickup, it turns out excellent. Probably someone, already did it. I did not meet the information, on this idea earlier. Has guessed itself. The way can become black and dirty. And they continue to go. To the place of their work, it is possible to put separate unit. And she refuses to go if not to touch its fingers. I also consider that dirty rails, show resistance to movement of cars, especially in curves. The device differential, on Railroad is not applied, in difference from cars. The internal wheel of an axis rotates faster. And the dirt, does not allow to it to slide well. I use for cleaning track, filled with a liquid tank car. It well does the work.
I tried metal MT wheel set, I couldn't see any difference. I changed back to plastic, they seem to roll better. I use a nylon brush in my dremel tool to clean the dirt off, works great! I made a holder out of a 1/4" delrin rod. Drill in about 3/16", for standard MT wheels I use a #7 drill bit. You just push one wheel into the hole in the rod, friction fit. This gives you something to hold onto and turn when cleaning the wheels. Jim
I used to have a huge problem with this myself. I lived in a very dusty environment (right next to my cabinet and fine furniture building shop) and dirt built up constantly. I finally took to modifying boxcars myself that had a tank for cleaning solution that let it semi-saturate a felt pad attached to the bottom of the car. I used a small spring to apply pressure to the felt pad. I ran these makeshift cars (1 or 2 at a time) at least every other session, and it never failed to pick up the grime before it became a problem. when a pad got dirty, I simply picked up more felt at the local fabric store, and replaced it... but I am sure a good rinsing in hot water and mind detergent would do the trick just as well. I later learned that there are cars that come produced this way, and that is their primary purpose. However, none of the factory produced cars worked as well, and at that time, none were made for the period I modeled. Trust me when I say it looked ridiculous running a 1990's era petroleum tanker on a 1920's era mining train. But I digress. My point is, with a little ingenuity and creativity, I solved my problem, and you can to! :mbiggrin: The war against dirt and grime can never be won, but we can at least hold our ground.
Hello. Recently, As my long experiments shown, if anybody dont touch rails by fingers, the good pickup lifetime rises significantly. Any organic material from fingers reacts with rails, and produces such above mentioned "plasticine". CONCLUSION: NEWER TOUCH THE RAILS BY FINGERS! ---- Vadim
I used to notice the problem a lot more when I used certain liquid track cleaners that I believe left an oily residue behind. I now primarily use dry cleaning terchniques (yep, a "Bright Boy". I know some have just fainted at the very thought!). I will occasionally use some 91% Isopropyl Alcohol or some Flitz Metal Polish, but most of the time it's the Bright Boy and/or an Aztec track cleaning car with a (similarly textured) roller. I still have to clean the tracks before every operating session (the layout is in the garage and we have significant humidity changes) but the buildup of crud on my plastic wheels is virtually a non-issue now. Whereas, it used to be quite bad. Evgeniy, I like the MU idea with the wire to combine electrical pickup between locos! I've thought about doing that but the logistics of how to set it up so it the locos can be separated and reconnected (with relative ease and without unsightly connectors or gaping holes) has kept me from proceeding. Your installation look quite good! How have you made the connections so that the locos can be separated and then reconnected? Russ
In professional housekeeping circles it is called, "Environmental Build-up". There is no such thing as clean air and most of the dirt we find ourselves removing from Ie., TV screens, is build-up that has been stirred up into the air and has fallen back to any available surface. It is a positive and negative Ion thing. One attracts to the other. When we turn on the electrical components of our model trains we in essence activate this positive and negative Ion attraction. Much like what happens when you turn on your TV. I have to clean the dust off my TV screen at least twice a week. Metal or plastic both are charged with static electricity and both will pick-up dirt. The one thing I have noticed is the Delrin plastic seems to pick-up less dust and dirt then I have experienced with the older plastic wheels. I need to correct something here. After some research and talking to Jeff S., a good friend he corrected me in that Delrin is not the same as our non-stick teflfon skillets. However, it is a much better plastic and easier to clean or keep clean. Yep, I can be wrong now and then. However, I believe the technology that went into the development of the non-stick frying pans had a hand in the development of the Delrin plastic. Like it or not, we will be forever plagued with dirty wheels. I don't care what you do with your rails and types of cleaning cars you use, dirty wheels will be a ongoing battle. We can minimize it with Nickel Silver track, metal wheels, polishes, no-ox, homemade masonite cleaning pads and those ever helpful air filters. And, you want to do these things to minimize the dust and dirt collection. However, at the end of the day, last of the week, while closing the books at the end of the month and from one fiscal year to the another.... Sadly, It will still haunt us.
