Seasons Greetings - I am interested in feedback from the N Scale community regarding layout prices. A review of eBay shows a wide variety of quality and prices - typically with little or no bidding. If you were interested in buying a complete door-sized layout that was of magazine-cover quality, what would your price range be? Photo attached to show example of quality. Thanks for your input!!!!!
I think when it comes to turn key layouts, the thing that I think is the biggest issue with on line auctions, is the logisitcs of getting a layout to it's destination without considerable damage. On line, I only see the layouts that are pretty much "give-a-way" prices sell, due to the shipping costs, and risk factors of substancial damage. I seen many that I would have loved to have, and at very fair prices, but little to no action on bidding because of those "logistics" of location, and re-location. That I think is the deterant rather than prices.. Layouts as you probably know if done well can cost over $1000 and up to build, but tend to only sell for a few hundred, and that is assuming pick up from location is possible.. Just sayin..
I agree about the shipping as a sticking point. Unless you are very local to it, that pretty much stops most interested parties. You really need to see it close up, as pictures rarely tell the whole story. Also, beyond materials, it's simply difficult to put any value on effort invested. So, regardless of quality, you are left with guessing what it's worth for those used items involved. Boxcab E50
there was a guy listing a hcd layout a month ago or so for $5000. and he would transport it for $2.00 a mile. needless to say it never sold
Follow-Up Agreed, and all good points. I was just curious if there was a general rule-of-thumb in the modeling community for a per-square-foot price, or if every layout really needs an in-person review to determine its value.... and it sounds as if people need to either see awesome, complete pictures or physically see the layout itself. And the shipping issue is definitely a huge question mark. Additional photos included for perspective on subject layout. Not trying to sell it here, just thinking about a possible future sale and seeking advice/guidelines for what would be reasonable to expect. Thanks for the input.
time is the biggest loser here. You spent 3 years working on this layout putting in 4000 hours 4000 X $20.00= $80,000 is this lay out worth $80k ? (i'm into scale tug boats 1/50 scale these can be as large as 4 or 5 feet long weigh 200 lbs loaded with ballest and batterys. There money pit's i could not sell a tug for half of what it cost me to build.) So you add up the cost of all your track,turnouts,buildings and all the other stuff like foam plaster rock forms, and there is a starting point:tb-embarrassed:
I am not certain what might be reasonable to expect, in any attempted sale. Suffice to say that you will rarely be able to recover the cash outlay for materials. The truth is getting back a mere fraction of monetary investment is most likely. More often, these things go unsold, end up being partially salvaged, the rest dumped. I was lucky enough to sell one of my NTrak modules, years ago. If memory serves me at all, got about 1/3 the new materials price involved. That one was at a point where it was ready for scenery. My buyer stripped much of the track. He just wanted that ready built benchwork. Another I had, with scenery, was not sold, (could not even give it away!), and that ended up being scrapped primarily for switches and leg hardware. Most layouts which are sold, were purpose built for someone who sought a specific end result. Those do get prices for labor, etc. It's likely the best you can hope for is finding someone in your vicinity- Who is just starting, wants it for a youth's present, etc. But don't give up. Unless you must move it within a certain time period, an opportunity may come along. It's a shame. But it happens quite often. Boxcab E50
I don't know how often one of these layouts sell on eBay. If there is a list of sales you could look at (such as last 30 days)... you could add-up all of the sales and then add-up all of the square feet... then divide the total sales by the total square feet to get an average price. Be aware that as each layout may be of better or lower quality to each other... that the estimated average price per square foot may not be typical for every layout. As mentioned before... the price of the materials and time invested are not likely to be paid back in full... the seller of the layout would be lucky to get 50% of cost of the materials... and nothing for the labor. The main reason is usually the cost to ship the layout... most people will deduct the estimated freight from thier bid. The other detracting issue is the potential for damage due to shipping. I would imagine that the most successful sellers of layouts find buyers within 100 miles away and will offer to deliver themselves or allow for the buyer to pick-up the layout at no added cost.
The best place to buy or sell a ready-built layout is at a local hobby shop or a local train show. Again... the sellers have to understand they will not be getting back their investment in materials or time... and bidders usually low-ball their offers too. I knew a gentleman who bought hundreds of N scale building kits at near wholesale prices with the intent to make money by building and painting them for 4-5 times the cost of the kits. He got the kits for ~$4.00 to $6.00 each (DPM kits) and put them on eBay for $19.95 to $24.95 each. He got very few responses... and those who did buy the built-up kits usually complained about something and some threatened bad feedback unless they got partial refunds. Most of the problems were damage to the kit (details falling off) due to rough handling by the postal service. In the end, the man decided it was not worth the hassles. I bought some of his unbuilt kits and since he was located in South FL, I also acquired many of his built kits for about $10.00 each and picked them up from his business (not model railroading). I bought a few more items a couple of weeks later... by then... he was so frustrated with the whole auction process that he offered to donate a huge amount of built & unbuilt structures to our model railroad club/museum (an IRS 501(c)3 not-for-profit)... to get a write-off instead of continuing to sell them on eBay.
BlazeMan Thanks for the compliment on the layout. It was always intended to be a temporary layout built just for "fun." It was built to test new materials and try new techniques, with the intent of publishing an article to share my experience with others. It took about six months (evenings and weekends) to build and I have very much enjoyed it for 3-4 years, but I'm ready to move on to building a new layout. All of this feedback has been great!
Yup - all N Scale. I made the cabooses. Starting with a MT shell, then scratch-building new cupolas from styrene.
The cost of building a professional quality railroad was once estimated at about $100/sq. ft., which no one believed. Yet I remember the numbers adding up with some sense. And I believe it was for museum quality work. That was cost; now for sales price. This thread has discussed it accurately: if you are lucky enough to sell, you'll get back a small fraction of your materials cost, and a smaller fraction for your labor. I think about my ships and bridges in N Scale. The most I could get for a built ship is about $350. If it was commissioned, it would be about $3500. The really fine scale people get about $7000. The Navy and maritime museum people get around $30,000, and probably earn every penny of it.
Pete that reminds me, I spent last Thanksgiving in Hawaii, and obviously visited Pearl Harbor. They have a gorgeous collection of HO scale replicas of both Japan and US ships during WWII. I have several pic I should get out and share. Back on topic. aaman, you're layout is superb! As for selling layouts/values, I posed the same question some time ago and the replies might be of value to you. Let me dig up the thread real quick...
Really a beautiful layout, like most others have said though, shipping and the fee's is what really kills you on eBay sales. Also most people don't want to spend thousands of dollars on something like that they can't see in person first. You can hide alot in pictures (not saying you are).
Like others have said; very impressive layout and a great attention to detail. Your layout value will only be determined by personally seeing it as the attention to detail and skill level in the construction can actually be truely visualized and appreciated. Brian
$100 per sq ft would probably only be the materials. About ten years ago, just for fun, I priced N scale layouts and for full scenery like that the finished price was over $500 SF plus delivery. I think set up was included in that. So, your upward price would be set by what people typically pay for custom work. A door layout is about 20 SF, so that would be $10,000 or so. But, that was for a custom design and build to spec. I think spec layouts would go lower. I think most layouts that are sold used go for about materials cost, back to that $100 per foot. Labor is discounted. In short, if I am buying a layout, I figure what it would cost me to build it myself (materials) and put some premium on the time saving, depending on how much I could afford. I would think that 110-120% of material cost would be a deal that someone would buy easily.
MYSTERE: That's very helpful and insightful, and thanks for the link to the previous thread. ALL: Great advice and perspective. Sincerely appreciated. Thank you!
