MTL losing their edge?

I've always thought of MTL as a total joke. Who runs a set of boxcars with the presidents? U.P.? BNSF? CSX? Thats right , nobody. Some of their stuff is ok but all this fantasy crap they have, yuck. Plus they are way overpriced. The only thing they make that I like are their trucks & couplers. I don't own any MTL rolling stock and probably never will.
Message to MTL ....make more modern prototypical rolling stock. And sell them in sets, like Kato. At the rate you make some stuff , it would take forever to make a complete train. Quit thinking ''collector'' and start thinking ''user''.

 

DF1,

While I agree with all your sentiments, it strikes me that we need to realize that collectors are a big part of the market that keep prices low for the runners. And, MT has started to do just what you ask them to do - with runner packs of 4. Yeah, it would take forever to get a full train of those KCS black, yellow and red covered hoppers, even if they ever offered the second through 7th set of 4 on a periodic basis.

For some items, I think they miss some sales by limiting quantities. Even though I preordered that runner pack at the LHS, they couldn't fill the order, so I know they missed at least one sale.

 

I still like MTL box cars more than the others.
Photo etch roof walks are nice but they bend and warp easy.
Plus if you scale them up to real people size ,man those are some big holes:tb-biggrin:.

99% of my rolling stock are 40 foot boxcars so I'm happy with MTL.
So I guess my layout is a joke but thats ok .
If I want something to be 100% accurate then I would buy a real Railroad,then again someone will tell me that it is not accurate so I will stick with N scale because it is cheaper.

Rick

 

What good is keeping the prices low if it takes years between new road names or different road numbers and when they do come out they can be in such short supply that you miss out. Things like the KCS covered hopper should be in runner packs of 12 or 24, I'd put an order in now if they did. I'm waiting for a Santa Fe scale test car to be released sometime before I die, anyone but MTL would do a dozen roadnames at a time.

Lucky this is only a hobby.

 

I like MT's modern 50' boxcars and own several and to tell the truth if I was modeling the 50/60 car era 60% of my cars would be MTs...

I don't like the battleship cars,state cars,president cars and the other such "collector" cars but,if they help foot the bill then no complaints from me..

 

The RPO is definitely not the car that I would have called out to prove that MTL is loosing it's edge....

The RPO has been one of the best recieved releases from MT in quite a few new cars. All the corners cut, were cut for the right reasons. They came out with a car that is almost half the price of current modern offerings (Rapido, IM/Centrailia, Walthers, WOT). Did you see the MSRP on the last heavyweight offerings that Con-Cor dug out of the basement, $149 for a 6 car set ($25 per car) for 30+ year old tooling and so-so paint. These cars are great and I will accept the shortcommings as you call them and buy more as they come along. My only complaint with the release is the window pattern and that may be changed down the road as the other cars come along and they want to freshen up tooling.

If you want to make your point, there are much better choices, such as the Bay window caboose.

BTW- Where can you get the Kato RPO seperate for $25? I'm not buying a Broadway, just to get a PRR bggage car.

 

Some of Micro-trains methods are not up to current standards in my opinion. Granted that some of the models being produced several other manufacturers currently include etched metal parts, free standing grabirons and some other details which are finer in quality than the standard MT offering. It should be noted that those 'other' manufacturers are premium cars and carry a premium price AND would be even more expensive if they were manufactured in the USA instead of China. Since MT is molding, assembling and decorating in the USA... their costs are somewhat higher per unit.

Sometimes I question the pricing of Micro-trains products in comparison to the other makers similar rolling stock... specially due to the better detailing on the other manufacturers products. I'd had become accustomed to Micro-trains product being of superior quality to the commonly produced items we were getting in the 1980's til mid-1990's. Now it seems that the Micro-trains brand has fallen to a mid-range quality overall compared to other makers products. Not everyone wants free standing grabirons, etched brass details etc... unless it costs equal or less than the average model. If you look at most of Micro-trains products going back to the 1970'... they are now pretty much average compared to the whole range of model being made. The problem that I see with Micro-trains is the cost in some of their offerings exceeds the mid-price range. It's those models which I have some concerns with... it almost seems like they are being priced at a premium level without the comensurate premium details.

I have NO PROBLEM with the new RPO model's price. It appears to be priced in the mid-range for most passenger cars being produced. Therefore, cast on mail rigging is not a problem with me. Inset windows being cast with the roof is not a problem either. If this car had been offered at $35.00... then I'd be much more concerned.

As for the cars with loads... I'm extremely disappointed with the effort made by Micro-trains. They should leave that market altogether... many (some are okay) of their loads are very toy-like and do not add to the appearance of the model. If the loads are adding any cost to the base model... it is in my opinion a waste of money.

Fantasy schemes... I don't even want to go there. I just ignore them now... as if they don't exist.

 

As far as the CAST containers, decals are available to add extra lettering.

Molded on detail such as mail hooks can be sliced off and separate detail added.

Separate windows can be installed.

Maybe the trucks can be modified. (I haven't seen them yet so I can't say for sure).

I realize that not everyone will want to go these extra steps. And that is fine as some may not feel that they have the skills. Others may feel that for the money spent on the model certain details should have been included.

Manufacturers are giving us models that we have been asking for. They will never be able to please us all. At least they are listening to us.

Consider taking your modeling to another level and make some changes to the models. Sure it's intimidating at first but it really does get easier with practice. It can add a whole other aspect to enjoying the hobby. And I see it as an attitude adjustment that can help to see the positive instead of the negative.

 

I believe Micro trains has indeed "lost their way" they were the leader in couplers and has since stagnated in that department. They should put out electric uncouplers (under base mount) refined couplers (smaller better detailed) and eliminate the slinky effect. Perhaps a knuckle coupler with the small spring on the head.
F unit spacing is still terrible, why not address that??? there are so many f units on the market and they all suffer from the same affliction (too much space between units)
Increasing the amount of numbers in a series would also help instead of the one or two numbers they generally issue, (not counting the runners packs)

R

 

I acquired a NYNH&H at Timonium, to-day for fifteen bananas. The list on it is twenty-whatever and change. That ain't too bad, considering that some of the forty foot boxcars and two bay hoppers are just under twenty bananas.

The paint is good, the lettering is good, the windows are not bad, the clerestory roof is nicely done. There are working diaphragms. The body mounted couplers are a nice touch.

The trucks look pretty good, when the wheels stay in , that is.

It looks pretty good with WOT, RR or Lima/MP cars.

Despite its being moulded on, the mail hook does not look bad. It is one of the better looking moulded on details that I have seen on any piece of N scale equipment.

The drawbacks:

MT has continued its tradition of the wheels' falling out of the passeger trucks.

The holding tray in the box is poorly done. It does not accomodate the car well. This makes it difficult to close the box properly. It also causes the smoke jack to bend. I made the mistake of trying to bend it back; it broke. That is not a major disaster; I can always cut down a caboose smoke jack or fashion one from a sprue.

The drawbacks are not uncorrectable.

I would buy more of these and would recommend them to anyone.

I do hope that MT's next HW car is a coach. The full RPO was a good first choice, as that car type is lacking in N scale. Even the HW baggage/mail car is lacking. The best that you get is either the Lima/MP PRR three way combine or the RR car that looks to be a car that was rebuilt into a mostly smooth side from a HW.

Is the Kato RPO available separately? I will not buy the whole set, either, just to get the RPO. Kato could hang whatever road name on their HW RPO and it would sell. Many roads rebuilt their old RPOs rather than buy LWs. Some had no LW RPOs, such as B&O. Do not try the song and dance about Kato's commitment to prototype fidelity. It sold a USRA heavy 2-8-2 with SP lettering and a coal tender. SP had no USRA power and it converted any coal burning 2-8-2s that it may have acquired to oil in short order.

The Kato RPO is also nice looking.

 

Kato had a heavyweight RPO?? when was this? anyone got a pik?

R

 

Since:
Micro Trains does as much work as they can in the USA
My job got outsourced to another country (and at 55 I will probably loose my condo / life's savings to the bank).
I don't care about the detail or historical accuracy
and while I admire the Rapido cars they cost way to much, (for my budget).

If - and that is a - HUGE - IF -

I could afford to buy any cars they would be Micro Trains.

I like the fantasy lines, the nicer looking trucks / couplers, and their real cars as well. Yes, I definitely would buy Micro Trains if they had cars I wanted and I had the cash.

Over all this whole subject begs the question:
How many cars do you need. I found I really don't need any more than will fit on my layout at any one time so why spend more money that will buy groceries on a bunch of plastic. Yes, I know the answer to the question, but I'm sure you get my point.

To quote unions (which I loath),
"Buy American, they job you save may be your own"

 

Getting away a bit from how good or not they are.

While I'm growing old waiting for MTL to do a Santa Fe one or an undec or unlettered maroon car that I can easily reletter for my own road, does anyone know if RPO's were used very often in interchange service. I know baggage cars roamed the country in bagged mail and express service especially in the lead up to Christmas, eg; if there was a full car load of mail or express shipments in L.A. for New York they'd put it in a Santa Fe car and send it through to New York, but did RPO's wander that far or just the occasional connecting lines. I have a feeling they didn't stray to far from home so I'm not sure a GN or NH RPO would have been seen too often on the Santa Fe in Texas.

 

http://www.katousa.com/N/Broadway/pics/BWLpics3b.jpg


Jason

 

Why is there a proclivity of hate towards the MT fantasy series? They don't really seem to be taking away from the production of prototype models. I kind of liken it to someone hating a Chevy Camaro because they would only buy a Corvette. If you aren't buying them then who cares if MT is making them. If they are making money with them then it would be absolutely foolish of them to drop the fantasy schemes because of prototype snobs who think that companies should cater only to them.

MT has also done some things to stay competative such as their weatherd cars and runner pack. They are trying to be progressive and compete with the market. I'm sure they will continue change things as they want to continue to make money. If they don't, they will fade away.

As far as the RPO goes, I just want to remind everybody that MT came to this forum (and maybe others I don't know about) and solicitated information about which passenger car they should produce. There aren't many other large model companies that have done that. I think that shows that they are adjusting to the market by using current technology in their marketing schemes. I like MT cars. I'm not a devoted fan - I just buy what I need whoever makes it.

Eric

 

I happen to really like my MT RPO, even with a new roof and lettering.

 

I think MT has remained a constant with there quality over time and they have kept the same standards year after year. Meanwhile everyone else has played catch up to them and some have now exceeded the detail level of the MT cars.
I for one still like MT cars for several reasons. First off there painting and graphics is sharp and crisp, same with the detail. I prefer plastic walkways as I find the etched one can come off very easy. As for the price yes they can be high, but I hold them in high regards because they make everything in the USA. As for the fantasy cars, I have never really been a fan but I did go for the NAVY series (single cars, can't afford a box set) and to each his own.
Kevin

 

Kevin,I agree with your views but,ye left out one thing-or is it just me?

I like their thin stirrups and operating doors.