Any word on when these should be on the shelves? I know the announcement said Fall 2009. I'm very anxious to see how well these perform. I have a feeling we are in a very good time for steam in N scale. The best years could be ahead of us. From what I can see from the pre-production pictures, this should be a fairly straight-forward conversion to an H6. Too bad I don't model the C&O. The more steam I see coming out in N, the more I am tempted to freelance.
I run steam, but I'm tired of getting burnt on all of these steamers put out lately. They look nice, run well, BUT CAN'T HARDLY PULL ANYTHING. The 2-8-4's, 2-6-6-2's, 0-8-0's(real poor), 2-8-8-2's and such. Pay a good price for each and then have to re-work every one of them to add pulling power. I'll stick with KATO 2-8-2's w/traction tires, and the Con-Cor 2-10-2's( a REAL winner in the pulling department & just plug in a decoder in the tender also) for now. If they are coming out with the 2-6-6-2's with DCC GREAT! But MAKE IT PULL ALSO! Somebody in the manufacturing industry must have had the brainstorm "Lets take a so-so engine, add DCC, maybe sound also, and sell it as something completely NEW!!" Nobody ever seems to worry about the fact that the engine doesn't pull worth a darn.
The new one is suppose to have traction tires also. Im with Porkypine. I have three of the older models and out of the box they can barely pull a bobber caboose down a steep grade. add weight everywhere possible and you have something pretty decent. I think I saw somewhere its moved back to early 2010.
I'm convinced no one at any of the major manufacturers (except maybe MTL) is an actual N scale modeler and that most of them don't actually try to run their engines on a real layout pulling real trains before they send them to the dealers to sell. I've applied Bullfrog Snot traction tires to my 2-6-6-2 and it will pull almost as well as my Walthers Y3 but we shouldn't have to do anything get our engines to do what they should. I'd like another 2-6-6-2, but I'll see what the reviews say first. Same with the AC12.
Exactly the reason BULLFROG SNOT was created. IMHO, it works better than rubber band traction tires. Easy to use too. Bill
It would be nice to have N scale steamers that could pull large numbers of cars off the shelf. But given N scale's weight issues, it is unlikely this will happen until manufacturers decide to find a much heavier alloy for frames (tungsten?) coupled with die-cast boilers and some type of sprung suspension for the drivers. The best pulling loco on my layout was a friend's Kato Mike with a GHQ pewter boiler conversion on it. That thing would pull 50 cars without traction tires. I put a Kato tired driver set on it that I had lying around just for fun, and gave up when it hit 80 cars without slipping. Traction tires help, but often the tires are too narrow to stay in full contact with the rails (e.g., my 0-8-0's and 2-8-8-2's all suffer from this malady to some extent - less so with the 2-8-0, which has a somewhat wider tire), and even traction tires won't help as much as is needed without some extra weight. Traction tires plus weight, however, like the Athearn Challenger = excellent pulling power. Unfortunately, not every steam loco is an articulated giant. In the meantime, tungsten putty and lead or tungsten weights stuffed everywhere possible in the boiler shell, coupled with stuff like Bullfrog Snot (or my Scotch double-sided tape technique) are the best we can do. That's part of modeling - getting the best out of what we have. And with these techniques, I can get a LL Berk to pull 35 NMRA-weighted cars around my layout, put 20 behind an 0-8-0 and 45 behind a 2-8-8-2. Not bad, and kind of fun to "fix" the problem. John C.
Sprung drivers I have a few Key brass locos (metal shells) with traction tires and sprung axles. The 2-8-4 is an unbelievable puller. Since Model Power and Bachmann have steamers with metal shells and traction tirs can added sprung drivers be far behind?
Guys, I was over in an HO forum and read that they are having the same problems we have, some of their newer steam locos that have come on to the market over the last 1 or 2 years, some pull good and others do not pull their own weight up a 1% grade. We are not alone on this.
I don't know... Bachmann has steamers with brass/bronze axle bearings, & fairly decent motors too. Then the 2-6-6-2 arrived without bearings; a "cheap-out" I could hardly believe when I saw it. Then the motor issue showed up... It's like a conga-line sometimes; two steps forward, one step back. Or is it two steps back? Hopefully they'll revise the H-4 and add those bearings back in-it looks like the thing might have origionally been designed to have them; then the wrong "bean counter" showed up... JimR.
Yes, you are correct. Tony Koester, who writes for MR and models the NKP in HO scale, tells me that the HO version of the Walthers/LL Berk has the same lack of pulling power as the N scale version, although the newest run apparently has traction tires that may help. I think that the lack of sprung drivers is a big part of the problem; I vaguely remember that someone did a study of an HO (or maybe N) 2-8-2 without a sprung suspension that showed that only 2 of the 8 drivers were in contact with the rails at any given time. So that's clearly part of the problem. But it also seems that weight doesn't "scale" as well as linear proportions. I'm not sure I even know how to think about "scale weight" - a Berkshire weighed about 400,000 pounds (engine only). 1/160th of that would be 2500 pounds, but weight is a "mass-related" measurement, sort of like volume, so I guess that "scale weight" should be 400,000 divided by 160 cubed, in which case it would work out to about one-tenth of a pound, or 1.6 ounces, which is far lighter than what our steamers actually weigh. All I really know is that in real life, a Berk could easily pull a 4000-ton train up 1.4% grades. My model Berks, even as modified, would be lucky to pull 20 cars up that same grade. John C.
Any ridgid steamer will always have a minimum of 3 wheels on the rail (3 points determine a plane). Articulateds and Diesels double that number to 6 wheels on the rail at all times. That is why a 4 axle diesel given the same weight as a 4 axle steam will out pull the steam (no traction tires). The diesel will have 6 wheels making solid contact where the ridgid steam would only have 3. I have hope that the H-4 will improve on the H-5 and learn from their mistakes. Maybe it's time for another 2 steps forward. I have cut and put traction tires on an H-5 and it doubled it's pulling power with only one set of tires. Hopefully they include axle bearings as well as the tracion tires mentioned.
I voiced my opinion on this very subject on the Bachmann website some time ago now. Here is part of that thread... 1) that they accurately reflect the H-4 type as appearance wise there ARE differences that make an H-4 distinctly different from and H-5 besides road number! Do your homework Bachmann...please as I'd rather buy ready to run with quality and performance than wait and buy brass. 2) that Bachmann can maybe get the smokebox front on this release straight (or vertical) instead of completely crooked (I have one that is brand new and was told by Bachmann that basically there is NOTHING they can do :O!) 3) that the detailed plastic pieces will have the "flashing" removed better as I have one that is ridicoulous as flashing is everywhere! 4) performance issues in running, tracking, wheel guage and such With that said...THANK YOU Bachmann for giving C&O fans the opportunity to buy additional locos from your Spectrum line...just tweak the issue of the H-5s and you will have an outstanding product, if not then I do not think they will sell as well as could be...just my opinion. If they fix these things and make it pull some cars without doing all kinds of mods we should not have to do in the first place...it'll be a good thing! Dave
