Curiosity question

Just getting a layout start for my 7 year old son and wanted to know, with O gauge, is there any possibility of my son being shocked while playing with it? I mean the electric is low current correct?

 

I don't believe there is a chance of getting shocked while playing with the trains themselves. (I am assuming this is standard Lionel hirail type of train set.) If you cross the wires to the track, you will see some nice sparks which are impressive but personally harmless. Leaving the wires crossed will cause an electrical short which burns out the equipment and makes it replaceable.

OTOH, you can stick your finger in the wall socket while assembling the trains. That will give you 120/240 volts and that will hurt a lot. I think you should supervise your son until he understands a few of the operating "rules."

 

Well my friend wants to sell me a Lionel 1034 (75 watt) transformer but I know its pretty old and Im wondering (even though he says its safe) can something that old be bad?

 

Plastics and rubbers can deteriorate with age, especially if they've been exposed to high temperatures or certain chemicals/vapours, so I'd suggest any electrical appliance over about 20 years old should be given at least an insulation test (that perhaps applies more to 230V countries where shock can be more of an issue than US). Ideally it should be opened up and given a visual to check the state of the internal wires and components - some things, like fluff build-up, can become a fire risk even when the insulation is fine.

This is particularly so when you are getting something 'new' that you don't know the history of, and it's for your child.

 

Going by basic circuit stuff, for your son to get shocked he'd have to be touching 2 or 3 of the rails (assuming this is a 3 rail lionel set). With HO and N (plus any other gauge with 2 rails) you'd have to touch either both rails or something else metal while touching one. Just like how birds sit on power lines without feeling a thing. That's because they aren't creating a complete circuit. I hope this helps. I had an HO layout when I wasn't too much older than him. I think it can be done safely.

 

O gauge can put out a little over 20 volts a.c., which is about 1/5 of what's coming out of the wall outlet. It is current regulated, so, worst-case scenario would be a zap and a yelp. I've had this happen with some DCC systems, they are higher voltage a.c., and I've gotten zapped when I laid my sweaty arm across both rails. Again, it's not fatal, more like an unpleasant surprise.

 

Hi,

As for a 7 year old using it, there should not be any problem as long as he understands a few basic rules. The first an probably the most important is how to plug and unplug the transformer (power supply) at the wall.

I was 5 or 6 when I got my first electric train, a Marx O27. I still have that that 50 or so year old train set and it still runs. The experience I got from that train set has kept me in the hobby for all these years.

I have to second the cautions that were mentioned about the condition of the transformer and the power cord. I still have the transformer that came with the above mention train and I have to say that the cord is brittle.

Have fun with your son while playing with (running) the trains.

Gary

 

These comments are mostly valid unless the unit has a fault that allows the mains AC to reach the track. For a possibly 40+ year old unit whose history I don't know I would not take that on trust for my own life, and certainly not as proxy for a 7 year old child.

Assumption is the mother of all foul-ups.

 

Ok here's the deal. I hooked up the 1034 and it works fine. With the unit plugged in, but the handle turned to no power (or off), if my son wants to change cars that the engine is pulling , and he accidently touches the outside rails, will he get zapped? or is it more of a strange tingle? [I was installing a new dishwasher in my house over the summer and was playing with hot wires and got zapped.] Is it that bad or worse? Second question: Does he have to complete the circuit by touching something else metal or just the outside rails?

 

I'm not sure about that. The power flow has been stopped, but I think there could still be some residual electricity in the rails, just a little. Like when Amtrak opens the draw bridge on the NEC. The power has been cut, but there's still a small amount of power in the wires. As far as completing the circuit, it could work either way. It doesn't matter if he touches all 3 rails or if he touches the middle one and some other piece of metal. Just like a rapid transit system! That's why passengers on subways/elevated lines are warned to stay away from the 3rd rail. If they touch that, and anything else conductive at the same time, they'll get a nice jolt!

 

As I responded to you elsewhere, the effect can be just as unpleasant, but it will be much less deleterious. We have all had a nasty jolt touching an electrical plug the wrong way, usually fiddling with it in the dark. We can feel our muscles spasm in concert with the 60 cycles/minute that the AC wall current maintains. This won't happen on DC current, but it certainly could on 20 volt AC. That is what cattle fences run at...about 15-20 volts.

You must be part of the circuit, or you must be a path to ground (really, one and the same..). Either one of these will have you yelping and doing a rug dance. Ditto for your son.

However, it is almost certain to be non-lethal. If anything, just as for a hot stove, he will soon learn to be careful about what he does. The best and safest course is always to disconnnet power when maintaining or cleaning any electrical device....across the board. Make him understand, and supervise him until you know that he internalizes the drill to reach for the off switch or power cord before he places his fingers along the rail-tops.

 

C'mon guys, think about it.....O gauge trains (Lionel, etc.) were MADE for kids to play with!! They run on LOW VOLTAGE! (AC or DC, makes no difference). There is NO WAY you can get a shock, even by placing your hands directly across the rails.

It might be possible that a kid (or a grownup, for that matter) could feel a mild sensation, but nothing harmful. Even before the CPSC, a manufacturer wouldn't make a toy that had dangerous voltages present and expect to stay in business (they had lawyers back then as well).

I started with trains 55 years ago (Lionel, Marx, American Flyer) and never got shocked. Today's large scale trains (LGB, etc.) run with similar voltages and no danger is present.

The power supplies and transformers we use today are SELV Class II (Safety Extra Low Voltage, Double Insulated), which means that any exposed voltages (i.e., on the track) are low enough so as not to be harmful, and that the 115 VAC input is double insulated from the low voltage output so that even under fault conditions, the possibility of harmful voltages appearing on the track is extremely remote.

Relax and have fun running trains.

 

I thought I just read and replied to this same question in O Scale forum.
This isn’t one of those spam deals is it?

 

But he is using a unit that is apparently 40-50 years old ...

OTOH, as he's already electrocuted himself while installing his dishwasher, maybe your 115V isn't lethal and it doesn't matter. (Europe is 230V which definitely makes one aware )

 

I've still have the transformer for my first "Electric Train" a Marx O-27, that I received from Santa 50 years ago. It still works fine, as well as the loco, and I was never Electrocuted by it. The only problem is that the cord is getting stiff.

Gary

 

Why is everyone mixing up "it works" and "it's safe".
When that stiff cord finally spalls off a bit of insulation, exposing a live wire, the transformer will still 'work' just fine. So when they find you dead beside the track the train will still be going round. It'll make a good story at your funeral though

 

I did not say that I still use it, but that it "still works". Furthermore I was trying to say that as a child I was not electrocuted by touching the rails as the original poster was asking about. As with any electrical device whenever the cord is damaged it needs to be repaired or replace.

As to "It works" and "It's safe" I agree that they are not the same. We always have to be concerned about safety before anything else. As I pointed out in post #8 of this thread, the child needs to know some basics about electrical safety.

As the father, he needs to supervise the child until he is sure the child knows how to use any electrical device not just a railroad transformer. Even though many posters in this thread and the other one of the same topic, have stated that the unit in question is most likely "Safe" to use, they have not had a chance to inspect the unit and it is the fathers ultimate responsibility to make sure "It's Safe" to use. If it is not safe to use and he elects to use it, then he will have to live with the consequences.

At least I will have died doing one of the things that I enjoy doing, and not sitting a my desk at work.

Gary