Athearn Dummy Units de-railing

Hi
I have just started running 3 Athearn SD45 Dummy units with plastic wheels and have had them all de-rail on turnouts, particularly rolling over the facing frog.
The Turnouts are Peco Live Frog Code 100 rail of various radii.
Has anyone had experience of this and cured the problem.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Alan M

 

There are two causes for your problem
1. Wheels out of gauge on the locomotives
2. Track out of gauge in the switch somewhere. Also check the points to see if the end of the point is too thick causing the flanges to pick the switch.
Metal wheels might help too. Why not power the units?

 

Any info on Power conversion Kits would be appreciated.
Thanks
Alan M

 

i have an athearn Dummy F45 that did the same thing.

I replaced the plastic wheels with metal wheels and added weight and now it runs great.

 

Athearn's Dummy units have been famous for doing precisely what you described since the companies inception. I had nothing but trouble with them in the world of HO models. And Athearn wasn't the only one. They aren't worth the price, the time or trouble.

I got so tired of the problems they presented I swore/affirmed I'd never buy another dummy unit. Who really needs them? I don't...do you? I don't need units that look, "Pretty, oh so pretty" to quote a phrase from an older song. Pretty doesn't get my trains up and over the grade.

My suggestion to you and others, including the manufacturers is drop the dummy units and give us some powered B's, PA B's, Geep Cabless and so on.

Ok, so I'm venting here and I'm highly opinionated. After more years of experience in this hobby then I care to admit and all the foolish purchases I've made. I can say with sincerity and honestly they, the dummy units aren't worth the trouble.

 

I tend to agree with you as, what did Athearn have in mind as to the use and application of these Dummy's. If they were meant to run in a consist then they should have had metal wheels which would have improved matters.
If they were meant to be static pretty things then OK.
Have you tried metal wheels and extra weight as reported successful by Geep_Fan.
Alan M

 

Alan,

It's not just the need for metal wheels and/or wheel sets but the whole truck and the way they are attached to the body. You will find they bind up in the turns or climb up and out of the rails in a reverse move. Adding weight simply adds drag...not a good idea. If the manufacturers would give them as much attentions as they do the train cars they produce or the working locomotives, we could have smooth running dummy units. But why? Other then looking pretty in a consist what good are they?

Ok, so we can add working sound units. Perhaps the only redemption a dummy unit has. HOWEVER, they have to run better then what we are seeing now, before we can add a working sound unit...agreed?

My boiler is about to explode so I'm going to take the next siding and cool off a bit. I don't want my pop off valve lifting off blowing needless steam away. Said with a tired grin!

As modelers we've yelled, screamed, ranted, raved, raged and other wise communicated with the manufacturers via private letters, phone calls, model rail wig wags (magazines...letter to the editor), through NMRA all to no avail. If you think the next generation can make a difference...lot's of luck.

Oop's there goes the pop off valve.

Have fun!

 

Rick
Your comments are appreciated.
Thanks
Alan

 

LOL

 

Athearn dummy units do have a tendency to derail on switch track points. What I did to get rid of the problem was to put some weight directly over the wheels. Either that or you can convert it to a powered unit. Converting it to a powered unit is very easy. Chances are, your local hobby shop either has the parts that you need, or they can order the parts for you. If you don't want to convert it to a powered unit, try putting metal wheels on it. A good thing that you should have is a gauge fit to NMRA standards. These are made by Kadee and they work very well. Big things to check: 1) The wheels are in gauge. 2) The mechanical spread of the rails between the frog and the outside rail is correct (Not too wide)
I have had my fair share of problems with plastic wheels as well. The flanges on them are usually too narrow and they seem to "cut" right through the switches. Athearn has a BIG problem with this. Their flanges are too narrow and the wheels seem to be more ovalish than round. This gives the engine awkward balance and performance and makes it more likely to have problems on the layout. I have already contacted Athearn and told them about this problem but it had no effect. Oh well.

My advice to you is to get a track gauge (If you don't already have one), to covert the dummy to a powered unit, or by giving the dummy some metal wheels.



You are all invited to check out my profile page and photo album. It contains pictures of all my locomotives and some nice pictures of my HO Scale layout. Pictures of my O Scale layout are coming soon.

 

Thanks for the advice.
I have found every axle set on the Dummies was 0.020" oversize on the "Back to Back" width when checked with a vernier gauge against NMRA standards. After rectifying this and adding a 2oz(50g) weight to the bodyframe, the dummies rode the switches perfectly, even when as the lead unit being pushed at speed through the same switches it previously derailed.
I think the problem was the out of gauge wheelsets and it just felt right to add the weight.
Alan M

 

Alan, thank you for the update.
It's always good to read about problems and their solution.

Wolfgang

 

What Metal Wheel Set would you use to replace?
Kadee Freight Car Wheels would be too small I would think and that is all I know of??

Thanks for your responses

 

I'm modeling a location where many locomotives were used at times, so dummy presence is necessary. I have several T-2's that I have had no problems with, but I'll have to gage them as part of the process after reading they were all out of spec.
I've found that the trucks didn't pivot well on some and had to file/debur the pivot point a little to free them up. The un-pwd geeps are too light, I add some weight to them.
You can also de-power a powered unit, I did this to one of my geeps that the motor died, and just pop the worm gear cover off and remove the driveshafts and disconnect the motor but leave it for the weight.

 

A good blow down and some cold feed water might help also.

:tb-biggrin:

 

I'm a little confused by some of the suggestions in this thread especially the one's by Rick, no offense intended.

Athearn Dummys are quite literally exactly like powered units with all the gears removed and the metal wheels replaced with plastic ones. the trucks are exactly the same with just no moving parts.

Gauging the plastic wheels is the first step.

I don't think weight is an issue, Those dummies still have their metal frames so they weigh plenty.

The next thing I would look at is switching to metal wheels. I don't remember where it is, but I had a thread asking about this very question a couple years ago, and it was point out to me that on switches the tips are relatively sharp and the wheel running over them will get caught. With a plastic wheel, the tip will bite into the plastic and cause it to derail, with a metal wheel, the tip will not be able to bite into a soft material and so the engine won't derail.

as to where to get Metal wheels, well that's easy. Simply use standard Athearn metal wheelsets for their locos with the gears on them. They will work perfectly.

As for powering a dummy, that's also relatively painless as you can buy can motors for use in athearn engines from a couple different sources or just buy the parts from Athearn or simply buy a new powered frame. If you have some nice looking units, then it might be worth it.
If you do a repower, you need the various worm and tooth gears that are built into the trucks. Those are available seperately or as a full truck assembly. As I said, the truck is 100% exactly the same as a powered truck with just none of the gears inside. So it's up to you how to handle it.

 

Hi, N-scaler here, what exactly are these "dummy units" you speak of?


(j/k, I used to do HO scale and had the exact same problem, I thought it was just my trackwork...)

 

There was another thread about dummys recently, I wonder if modern models, in their quest to become more detailed and more scale speed specific have also become pansies?

If you're running a mainline class 1 train with between 50-100 cars, you'll use somewhere between 2 and 4 locos or maybe more locos. There is absolutely no reason to have all of those powered except on the largest train.

Another advantage of dummies is that you can swap shells around and spend significantly less on a seemingly larger fleet of locos.


Finally, sometimes you can get real deals. There's a train store up in Orange County that sometimes gets production samples from Athearn that are dummies that they turn around and sell for under $20 I got an SD-60 that way. And of course at Swap meets and trainshows, the dummies are going to be significantly less cost. I picked up 2 highly detailed Athearn GP38-2s one powered, one dummy for $20 once and I've seen the dummys alone for as little as $5.

 

Here are a couple of good reasons to run Dummies & overcoming turnouts problems associated with them.

1. De-commision old units you do not want to convert to DCC. Remove the gears. leave the trucks and motor (for future use) as weights.

2. Some turnouts do not allow the point to but tight to the rail and the wheel flange will get between the point and outside rail and derail. The solution I found is to file away the vertical edge of the point to slight angle towards the rail. I did this so the point would easily acccept the wheel flange.

The dummy units are available for use as an un-powered B (especially units you may have customized back in the day and do not have funds to convert to DCC. The units are also available for the grand kids to play with on the tracks while you are doing
upgrades modeifications etc.

Let me know what you all think about this.