Getting to the point where I can make turnouts that work: So now getting to the issue of installing & hooking up the caboose handthrows I got (206-S, the springloaded ones). I'm thinking a couple of options: 1. measure out the space & outline on the foam cement the wood ties onto the foam use pliobond to attach turnout to ties connect flextrack to turnouts or 2. layout ties on workbench use pliobond to attach turnout to ties use caulk to set turnouts in place connect flextrack to turnouts anyone with experience have any advice? Also, for connecting the handthrows to the pcboard throwbar: I was thinking drill a small hole in the throwbar & use a clipped railspike to connect to a handthrow, then cement the handthrow to a small piece of styrene, which then is cemented to the foam. Just wondering if anyone has experience with pcboard throwbars holding up with holes drilled in them. (in n-scale, they be rather skinny!). Thanks for yr feedback! Cheers! --Mark
I wish I had the skill level and patience to do this but I don't. However I do enjoy seeing other modlers succede at these tasks. It will be a good addition to the "How To" forum. See ya Ron.
You turnout looks good. Congratulations. I would glue the ties at the layout and then attach the turnout. This is what I will do with my new ones. For turnouts I've until now soldered more ties, all ties are from printed board. Did you think about the Blue Point Turnout Controller or some other mechanical device? Then you can install Details West switch stands, working. :angel: This is what I do with my Silver Creek. Wolfgang
Thanks for the ideas, Wolfgang. I've been admiring your layout & your website since I got started modeling back in December. I very much appreciate the time you take to share your experience & fab layout with everyone! As for mechanical throws, I'd like to do as much manual on the deck as I can. & then there's the question of cost. Caboose are about $3 a pop, while BluePoint is $9. I noticed a wood mechanism on Fasttracks site called Bullfrog: http://www.handlaidtrack.com/bullfrog-turnout-control-c-2087.php which is $6, but I still want things at the turnout, not on the fascia. I know about this technique: http://www.conrail1285.com/news.asp?storyid=31 but he's cutting through shallow foam & mounting onto wood. I have 2" foam. I guess I could scrape out a bit, glue a piece of styrene as a base, then glue the handthrow to the styrene. Just wondering if anyone had any other ways of doing it, or if the pcboards stand up to repeated use with a hole drilled through them. Cheers! --Mark
Thanks, everyone, for yr feedback! So over the last couple days, on my test diorama, I've tried this: I drilled a hole in the throwbar using a #78 bit ('cause that's what I have). Took a piece of piano wire I had left over from an A-frame bridge I'd built & made a pin, bent the top, pushed it through, & then soldered it. Not sure how secure that solder joint is, but between it & the tie it should hold for awhile. I had tried a railspike but that wouldn't solder & stay. Then I scraped out a section of foam & tried to attach a styrene plate to serve as a base for the handthrow: Unfortunetly, I tried CA first, which resulted in a wee bit of melting. Best advice I've found with working with foam? If the product says "flammable", DON'T USE IT on foam! So I used ALEX caulk & it set fine, but too deep (darn global warming melted my foam!), so I just CA'd another styrene panel on top of the first. & painted all with Laytex paint ("Tuxedo"). Used the caulk to affix the turnout & track, taking care not to have any around the points: Notice I gouged out a space for the pin that's dropping through the throwbar. Once all the track was set, I placed & CA'd the Caboose handthrow to the styrene plate. Then I fitted wood ties under the turnout (no glue): So! Just pipetted in some white glue / alcohol between the ties so they won't move when I paint the track. I figure I don't have to firmly attach the ties, since painting & ballasting will take care of it (yes?). So right now waiting for the glue to dry. (remember: this is a test chunk of foam!) MAIN ISSUE: it seems that cutting into the foam & breaking the surface tension of the foam creates an unstable base for the handthrow base. My Handthrow works (very well, actually, considering it's all early work being sacrificed to the guineapiggods, but there's some give & rocking over the foam below. I'll try blocks of wood next (deeper than styrene), but just seems that cutting the foam reduces firmness. I have 2" foam, so I'm thinking I might rather attach a 1 7/8" high piece of wood to the plywood base below the foam, so it's all rock solid. But that means hollowing out 1/2"x3/4"x1 7/8" shafts next to each turnout. I'll try the smaller block of wood version & see if a wee be more depth doesn't help stabilize. Thanks for all yr help! Cheers! --Mark
I've soldered a small piece of brass under the throw bar. The I drilled the hole through the PC and the brass reinforcement. BTW, I have the copper foil down. Wolfgang
Wolfgang - attaching support underneath is a great idea. Things are a wee-bit small in N-scale, so I'm going to do the "Gorilla Luggage Test" on the Caboose attached directly to the pcb throwbar: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ZeIoLz8FE"]YouTube - TV commercial film for American Tourister Luggage 1970[/ame] Here's what I've done so far: I filtered some glue/alcohol between the ties to hold them: which worked out pretty well. The caulk I put under the two pcb ties around the throwbar didn't hold, so there's some give there (which actually might turn out to be ok in the long run, in terms of flexibility & more gradual curves, but we'll see!) Turns out the caulk set but the whole throw area was very mushy (too much give under the plates), so I pealed it up a wee bit, scraped out some caulk, & spread some Gorilla Glue under the styrene. I placed a block of wood & a weight (in this case, the jar of dye for my wood bits) on it cause the instructions call for 1. wet, 2. glue, 3. clamp (or, in this case, press). I tried to go spare, since everyone says GG foams & spreads. Seems to have worked out: the throw base is almost rock solid. Then I took the same flat latex paint ("tuxedo") & smothered me tracks with it. I dipped the brush in water every once in awhile & went over so the paint would seep down between the rails. I painted ties, rails, everything (except the area around the throwbar). Right after painting, I took a paper towel with some alcohol & wiped down the tops of the rails. The paint came right off. (While painting, the paint doesn't stick 100% to the rails, but it does dirty them up. Question: will latex flake off the metal "down the line?") Before I painted the turnout, I applied LaBelle oil to the throwbar & handthrow. I've found that it helps keep the paint (& even CA, sometimes) from freezing up a turnout. Then I took a smaller brush & did the middle. Pretty much slathered it. Then wiped. Here's a close up: For the past hour, I've been working the handthrow every 10-15 minutes to make sure nothing's sticking, & so far it's working great. The laytex doesn't stick to the pcb ties as well, & another coat does the trick. As soon as things dry, I can ballast / scenic etc. For my real layout, I'm thinking of using 3/8" x 3/4" rectangles of 1/8" masonite as the panels, based on the fact 1. I have lots of that hanging around & 2. the Gorilla Glue makes a pretty impressive base for the handthrow. I'm still apprehensive of breaking the surface tension of the foam, as I think it compromises the handthrow base, but I'll work on my cutting technique & try not to ball the foam up & maybe I'll get better as I go along. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be glad to hear them. Cheers! --Mark
A bit late with this, but why not do this the prototype way? Ie. Extend the ties on each side of the throwbar to one side and mount the handthrow on them. That way the whole turnout/throw mechanism is one piece and can 'float' in/on whatever it is mounted - all the actuating forces are kept within the assembly which can be set up and tested on the bench.
Could do that, & I've seen it done. For me there's a couple issues: 1. The wooden ties, at least in Nscale, are very thin & don't provide that much support. 2. The Caboose Handthrows I'm using already are a wee bit big, & mounting them above the ties & throwbar makes them look even more like catapults. So I'm trying to recess & mount under the throwbar. Something like this: http://www.conrail1285.com/news.asp?storyid=31 but on 2" foam instead of 1/8". Cheerio! --Mark
Fair enough. Why not fit normal length ties to the turnout around the tiebar, then glue a sheet of material to the underside of them and sticking out one side to mount the handthrow on. You could put extra layers under the ties to make the throw even deeper if you wanted. That still gives you the ease of building and setting up the mechanism on the bench, and you just need to dig out a bit of the foam to suit when installing it - no tricky mounting and adjusting at the tracklaying stage.
Fab idea! I agree: keeping the turnout & throw together as one unit makes much sense! So, looking around at what I had, I took some 1mm styrene (wood panel was all I had), painted it black, & CA'd a small section (to fit under the turnout) to a longer section that will be the base for the throw: Well, one layer wasn't enough clearance for the pin & the throw mechanism, so I CA'd another small section on top of the first, & painted again. When dry, I realized that I SHOULD have hollowed out a bit of space for the throwbar, so I filed it a bit, which took off the paint. But smooth action is there. Added some LaBelle oil to the throw to keep things loose. Then I spread a wee bit of Gorilla Glue on the two pcb ties on either side of the throw, fitted it, placed (but did not glue) the handthrow, & then put a weight on the turnout so the chemicals could go to work. I supported the other end of the turnout with a 1/8" piece of masonite, which is just about the same height. I let it sit for a couple hours, then removed the weight: After testing the bond, I CA'd the throw to the styrene, being very careful not to let any seep out & up into the bar (a fav trick against caboose handthrows). Applied more LaBelle 107 to the handthrow itself (just to make sure!), & let it cure. The end result: A single unit that works great! The styrene base is, of course, a wee bit flexible. After I carve an 1/8" inch out of the foam & affix with Gorilla Glue, it will be rock solid. This method would work GREAT if I was using cork roadbed, which is 1/8" high. But I'm not (industrial / urban), so I'll need to carve a wee bit, which will help reduce the profile of the "catapults". Thanks, Mike, for the idea! I'm sure there are other ways to do it (I'm thinking hardwood might be better), but off we go! Cheers! --Mark
Yes. Prototype throws don't get operated by a 60ft hand One thing to watch (and maybe test out) is that the throw lever isn't so near (or even on) the surrounding ground that you can't easily work it and/or it doesn't throw the full travel the turnout needs. You might need an extended pit which looks worse than a tall throw. Glad to be of assistance.
Got two done, so now almost ready to install on the layout (pict shows positioning): Tomorrow will take the time to position some temp flex track before & aft, position turnouts, carve space, then affix. Later will insert ties underneath. Will get a Dremel thin cutter so I can make the cut above the frog after all's affixed. Feeder wires, then painting! Will report back on quality of 1st two. Cheers! --Mark
Looks like you are getting there. It's fun building switches isn't it? I like to build mine on the workbench so I glue the ties to a thin plywood base then install the whole thing when it's finished. You might be able to do something similiar by gluing your assembled rails and ties to a thin sheet of plastic then glue that to the foam? Perhaps you could find plastic sheet the same thickness as your roadbed to save the trouble of height matching switch to flextrack?...dave Here's one in S scale almost ready for the switch stand or ground throw.
The good, the bad & (mostly) the ugly. Carved out the space for the throw mounts: The left side is ragged & ugly because I had ripped up some cork roadbed & the caulk pulled up a wee bit of foam which I filled with plaster which then flaked when I cut it. The carving on the right is cleaner because I slowly shaved layers of foam with an exacto, & then filed the finish into a clean smooth rectangle. I slid railjoiners on the ends of the turnouts, & joined the two turnouts together to form a single crossover. I spread caulk on the foam under the frog / diverging sections of both turnouts, & spread Gorilla Glue under the throw mounts. I placed the fixture, connected the railjoiners, pressed the turnouts into the caulk & held with t-pins, & put weights on the throws to hold for the GG to set. It was about this time when I realized that the space for the left turnout throw unit was way too deep, so I bent it up a bit & poured some more (just a bit more!) Gorilla Glue down there, counting on its expanding properties to take up the space & make the bond. I was about to leave for a couple hours when, in a flash of insight boarding on enlightenment, I thought to cover the handthrow itself with a plastic bag "just in case" the glue really foamed. And look at that! Foam it did, but handthrow stuck did not! The handthrow units were now rock solid! After that I took a dremel thin cutter & stuck it in my drill & made cuts to isolate the frog: I forgot to cut the pcb ties at the top of each frog, so my powercab was shorting out. But after I cut the gaps, I could run my 44tonner through both turnouts. A little bumpy, but it worked! You'll see on top of the far right circle (my first cut) that I cut too far & the diverging rail was cut as well. Bad place for it, since its curving & so now it's out of alignment. I had other issues with the bottom turnout as well (slightly crooked frog), so I just recently took it out: it just pulled off the caulk & popped off the styrene handthrow mounts, leaving them in the foam. Right now I'm fitting a better turnout into position, as well as putting wood ties under the first turnout & affixing them with diluted whiteglue. Will post more soon!
Like I said last post, the closer/forward/lower/to the right turnout had frog issues (not sharp enough / extended enough so there was too large a gap between frog & pointrails), so I removed that turnout: The turnout had been attached to the foam with caulk, so that just scraped off, and the two pcb ties gorilla glued to the styrene turnout fixture just popped off as well, leaving it firmly glued in the foam. I built a new turnout (amazing how experience informs successive construction!) & installed it much the same way: caulk under frog area to foam, two pcb ties straddling throwbar with gorilla glue. When all dry, I repeated the steps of inserting another pcb tie under the pointrails to make a stronger anchor, then cut with a dremel disk to isolate the frog. This time I was careful not to cut the stock rails (though I did nick one a wee bit!). Then I cut wood ties to length, slid under the turnouts & used whiteglue diluted with alcohol & water to tack in place. I painted the whole thing with "tuxedo" latex paint. I wiped the top of the rails with a papertowel wetted with alcohol (rubbing). I put labelle oil on the throwbar & moving parts (before painting), & kept moving the handthrows over the next couple hours to make sure nothing stuck. & here's a closeup of the crossover: hmm... a bit blurry when blown up. I'll try to get a better one soon. Also need to touch up some areas with paint, but some cinders / ballast will help as well. Everything dried, & after a track cleaning, my 44tonner ran fine over the whole section. Been slowing down in my turnout making, taking my time to get the filing of the stockrails & points to fit very well (if they don't, they create a tiny bump / curve that jiggles the trucks). While this single crossover works well, Good thing I have 30+ more turnouts to get it 110% right!
