If you can find one, buy a copy of Harre W. DeMoro's Southern Pacific Bay Area Steam , , 1979, Chatham Publishing Company, Burlingame, California, ISBN 0-89685-037-4, LOCCC number, 78-72990. It has service photographs of 2472 and 2479 as well as some of the power that is in the Tejas State Railroad Museum. What is conspicuous by its absence is a service photograph of 4449. The book is mostly photographs and has almost any SP steam that you could imagine. There is even a photograph of an E-class with a Vanderbilt: something for which some took MP to task when it planned to offer its SP eight-wheeler with one. In defence of those who raised the hue and cry, most SP E-classes did have box tenders, but some did have Vanderbilts. It has photographs of some of the unusual power and some electrics, as well.
Brokemoto, Am I reading into what you shared that the Del Monte was pulled by an E-class with a box like tender? It's possible as SP did have box tenders. There are no hard and fast rules with railroading. Equipment is dispatched as needed and if a tender is in for repairs, another tender would be placed on a locomotive and together put back into service. Now we have it. My Del Monte has shown up in San Berdu looking for an E class with a box like tender....naw...that would be humiliating as I don't have one. Have fun!
Eight wheelers probably hauled the DelMonte in the nineteenth century, but, by the twentieth century it was ten wheelers, then pacifics. I do not know if any of the atlantics pulled it. By the 1940s, the M classes started to show up, then the 4-8-4s in the 1950s. The ex-SSW 4-8-4s often pulled it and the Santa Cruz trains in the 1950s. The first pacific showed up on the SP in 1904. Most SP E-classes had box oil tenders. There were some, however, that did have Vanderbilts. By the time of the more modern eight-wheelers, I suspect that the DelMonte required ten wheelers. The eight wheelers worked the SF Peninsula locals until the ten wheelers, atlantics, then the pacifics, displaced them. The 4-8-2s, then the 4-8-4s displaced the pacifics from SP's intercity trains. By the 1930s, most of the eight wheelers were gone from the SP. The comment on the MP eight wheeler was simply something related more to DeMoro's book than it was to the DelMonte. By the time of the smoothsides, almost all of the eight wheelers were long gone from the SP. I mentioned DeMoro's book because there were inquiries about photographs of SP steam in the SF Bay Area. If you want service photographs of SP SF Bay Area steam, DeMoro's book is the book to buy.
Brokemoto, Thanks for the heads up and I will look for this book. SP provided some of the most interesting train watching in the bay area. Watching the ATSF and WP compete with the SP brought on some interesting rate wars. Thanks again for your input here.
Del Monte Rapido just released some SP lightweight coach and sleepers in what looks like to me could pass as Del Monte Cars. Maybe SP Sunset and Del Monte had the same color and banner. Looks like it to me. Suppose to be several more car types in the future. Maybe even a bar/lounge one too.
Most of what I know about the Del Monte is based on the contributions of John West and Drew Jacksich at Railpictures.net. Just do a keyword search there for 'del monte'. For example, you'll find this awesome shot... http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=274557 It seems that if you're modeling the 60s or 70s, you could use any motley crew of SP passenger equipment. Just keep the train short. I understand the Del Monte was actually SP's first named train.
How about... There was a huge earthquake in the bay area. The Del Monte was around Castroville at the time. Since many overpasses fell on the tracks, and some railroad infrastructure is iffy, the powers that be decided to get the train out of the way. So they sent it to San Bernardino for servicing until the dust settles up north.
Jeff, I'd be interested in the Rapido SP passenger cars. Thanks for the warning. Jagged Ben, I appreciate the picture resource. Interesting consist. Me thinks you are right about any old consist as long as the train is kept short. Richard 320, Yep, an earthquake would certainly see trains headed south to move refugees. After the San Francisco earthquake SP ran all kinds of trains to bring in food, goods and handle passengers needing to get out of town. I think it would be safe to say they'd be right there to help in the event this happened during the Del Monte, time frame of operations.
I've read a lot about trains derails... but the Del Monte on my favorite roller coaster... this beat all! Anyway, if somebody is interested to the real story .... http://www.sbhrs.org/organization/block/01Sprng_2.pdf http://www.sbhrs.org/organization/block/01Sumr.pdf Enjoy Enzo Fortuna
Enzo, Thanks for the lead. I bookmarked these resources and will take time later today to read them. All part of a history that I barely remember. Awesome resource.
Rick: Just found this post and though it's late, thought I'd reply. You mentioned the Del Monte cannery in Monterey, but I actually think the train was originally named for its destination, the old Del Monte Hotel which was a little south of what is now Asilomar, and was a luxury getaway for San Fransicso 'Nabobs' during the latter part of the 19th Century. The last time I was down that way, the rail line had been closed from Salinas to just below Ford Ord (which is now a college campus). Evidently CalTrains is thinking of re-opening the line sometime in the near future, but I don't know if that entails re-laying the track from Fort Ord into Monterey. The roadbed from Monterey to Asilomar is now a hiking/bike path. I've got some photographs of the old Del Monte in its steam days in a nifty railroad book by Lucius Beebe called THE CENTRAL PACIFIC AND SOUTHERN PACIFIC, which is a pretty fair photographic history of the entire SP system. Evidently Beebe was a regular passenger on the Del Monte during its heyday, as he writes very affectionately about the train. Tom
Okay here we go. Due to recent Logistics constraints in the military these days; the Army(Fort Ord) demanded that the old line be reactivated to facilitate air lifts from other locations near Sacramento?? What do ya think?? There's another idea Rick Well that my two bits
Tom, How about that. I'm glad you found the post and brought it back. I was having fun with the idea that somehow the Del Monte, ended up on my layout and at the Santa Fe Passenger Station in San Bernardino, Ca. It is without a doubt one of my favorite trains and of course I'm going to model it. We just extended it's service area...grin! Asilomar and the Del Monte Hotel, I'd of never thought. Typcially the information you get in and around Monterey, Ca., is the train served not only the commuters going to and from San Francisco but handled cannery shipments from the Del Monte Canning Company to San Francisco. Thus it's name sake. I'm aware the track went as far as Pacific Grove to a small gravel mining operation. Not sure if it actually went around to Carmel. The thing is I remember Asilomar, but I don't remember where it's located. Seaside, Monterey, Pacific Grove, Pebble Peach and it seems to me Asilomar was somewhere near Point Lobos, and somewhat inland. Would that be correct? I will have to look for Lucius Beebe's book. How interesting. I'd love to see your pictures. That hike trail from Fort Ord to Monterey is pretty much a lost piece of property...unless Cal Trans still owns it. I don't think the hard core, green minded, sue happy types will stand still for or entertain the idea of rails back into Monterey. Unless you can convince them that carloads of people can be taken off their new freeway, resulting in reduced exhaust emissions. That may be a bit of a hard sell...by now. We can hope.
Mr. Sub, There's nothing more I'd like to see then a commuter rail network that works it's way from Monterey, north all the way around the bay to Santa Cruz. Connects at Castrovile and Watsonville to other commuter trains south to Salinas, Ca. and north to San Francisco via, Gilroy, San Jose with conections all the way North to Sacramento via Oakland and of course directly to San Francisco. While they are at it connecting Hollister into the route. A nice little suburbia primarily a sleepy farming community. Just don't be messing with my friends the farmers or their property. We need to keep what farm lands we have in California. As far as the military and their needs I always thought that closing the tracks to Fort Ord is one of the worst mistakes you can make. It's a great training area for special ops as well as other operations. I'd love to see the rail reintroduced all the way back to the Presidio in Monterey, Ca. One can wish, hope and pray this happens. .
It was a special opps. for the army. They commandeered the Del Monte @ Fort Ord to go meet the Marines from Penelton for a "special opps" (card game). And the Marines commandeered an ATSF passenger train also.:mconfused:
Rick: Asilomar is right on the ocean just south of Pacific Grove--the old SP roadbed is on the hillside just above it, and extends further south about a half-mile or mile to the site of the old Del Monte Hotel (which burned down sometime in the 1930's, I think and was never rebuilt). I used to go to Asilomar once a year for a music convention--it's a beautiful place that has a great beach, and an exceptionally popular 'retreat' area. The railroad never went around to Carmel, but ended right at the Del Monte hotel, if I remember correctly. Pebble Beach is just a stone's throw south of the site. I'm not sure which came first, the Del Monte Hotel or the Del Monte Cannery, or if they were even associated with each other. But it sure would be nice if CalTrains put the line back into use, at least as far as the Monterey Presidio. The last time I was there, the Monterey station was intact (I think it's a real estate office), and there was even a short section of track there. Actually, this whole thread gives me an excuse to head back down there, LOL! Beautiful area, IMO, certainly one of the prettiest in North/Central California, and it's only about 2-1/2 hours from where I live. Tom
Tom, you wrote: Actually, this whole thread gives me an excuse to head back down there, LOL! Beautiful area, IMO, certainly one of the prettiest in North/Central California, and it's only about 2-1/2 hours from where I live. Tom I lived in Seaside as a kid and absolutely enjoyed it. I'd get up early to watch the Del Monte leave town and after a day at school and peanut butter sandwiches I would sit on my front porch where you could see the bay, evening traffic and watch the Del Monte come back into town. Loved it. Like you I could use this thread as an excuse to plan a trip back up there. Maybe I could ride the train? Thanks again for sharing here.
Nick you wrote: It was a special opps. for the army. They commandeered the Del Monte @ Fort Ord to go meet the Marines from Penelton for a "special opps" (card game). And the Marines commandeered an ATSF passenger train also. Nick Lorusso LOL It was a special OOPS alright. Did you win anything in the card game?
Rick: Well, you could take the COAST STARLIGHT from LA to Salinas, but from there on, it would have to be auto, I'm afraid. Even the switch onto the Monterey Branch has been taken out at Salinas--at least it was the last time I rode the STARLIGHT from Sacramento to San Luis Obispo a couple of years ago--though the track for the branch is still there from Salinas to Ford Ord (and actually through Seaside, as I remember). But hey, there's talk of CalTrains extending their operations from Gilroy into Watsonville and up to Santa Cruz, and even from Gilroy to Monterey, so you really never know what might happen. The whole Sacramento/Oakland/San Jose/San Francisco/Gilroy area has become a HUGE railroad commuter corridor the past couple of years, so extending it into the Monterey Bay areas certainly wouldn't surprise me within the next couple of years. It might not be the old and sorely missed "Del Monte", but it would sure as Heck beat the traffic on Highway 1, LOL! Tom
Glad to hear there's been talk, at least. I have a feeling it will end up happening, though perhaps not for twenty years.
