Cancelling a reservation for more reasons than just a bad review.

Rob de Rebel Jan 20, 2005

  1. Rob de Rebel

    Rob de Rebel Permanently dispatched

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    I am not going to point a finger at any one on line store, but I had reserved a 2 6 6 2 and a 284 berk that I ended up cancelling because of gauge problems.

    What really aggravated me was I was willing to purchase them providing the retailer checked the gauge before sending them out. (I had already experienced one loco I had to return from this outfit and didn't want to go through sending them back to the manufacturers for two more locomotives)
    So when I asked the online retailer if he would check the loco and see if the wheels are in gauge I got a difinitive "no we can't do that" answer. So I replied to them well I am going to cancel my reservation. whats it going to take 5 mins? I already had one loco thats going back to the company, I am not relishing sending two more. Bachmann and lifelike, especially with the current problems they are experiencing with them, because they are not easily fixed (at least at this time) This is especially true of the 2 6 6 2.

    If it was just the gauge issue and the wheels were capable of being adjusted in gauge, I'd say OK and I would fiddle with it. But since minor machining of parts is envolved and this is a new locomotive, why should I have to? especially at these prices?
    So much for customer service on the retailer! I do business with them periodically. so you gotta wonder what their stint on this is.

    So bach and Lifelike, your out two sales, and the hobby retailer I wont buy steam from you unless the two companies come out with a fix, and I am disappointed in your customer service issues if you cannot or more than likely am not willing to go the extra step.

    Personally, If I owned a shop, I would of checked these when they came in. If they didn't meet gauge specs I would of sent them back as unacceptable merchandise.

    Rob
     
  2. LongTrain

    LongTrain Passed away October 12, 2005 In Memoriam

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    Sounds to me like you did the right thing, Rob.
     
  3. SLR 393

    SLR 393 Guest

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    I would get a new online dealer, the two i deal with would check something like that if I asked them to. did you pick that place because of price?
     
  4. mcjaco

    mcjaco TrainBoard Member

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    See here's my problem, how big of an outfit is it? I worked in fairly decent sized hobby shop through college. I was in charge of the HO department and my buddy was with the N scale side. With the amount of stuff coming in, and I mean for all areas of the shop, there was no way to check stuff like wheel gauge on everything that came in. Should that even be expected of a hobby shop (online or otherwise)? Obviously, the manufacturer tries to get them as close to gauge as possible but, it's not going to happen everytime. That's when, as modelers, we should be able to make the fix ourselves. That is why we're in the hobby right? To work on this stuff....

    I'm not saying that for the cost of some of these locos and rolling stock we shouldn't expect higher standards but, 1.) this is a hobby, this type of thing comes with the territory and, 2.) give these shops a break. Some of the large mailorder/website places you're dealing with non-model railroaders. Do you really want them taking a look at your stuff?

    Let's start to get a little realistic.

    My 2 cents
     
  5. Rob de Rebel

    Rob de Rebel Permanently dispatched

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    I think its realistic, they are pretty big, and since the gauge issue on the locomotives is not an adjustment more of a modification I think the tinker with steam aspect doesn't apply here. In that view "comes with the territory" really doesn't apply to what I call faulty merchandise.
    If the gauge was out by a hair, and adjusting it didn't impair the operation, hence the need to grind down crossheads or whatever, I'd be with you on this one.

    This post goes back to an older post I wrote on capabilities of repair on steam by N scale modelers. What most can do, not the exceptions to the rule. Since watchmaker skills are difficult and tools are expensive and sometimes specific. I don't believe we should be asking N scale modelers to have steam locomotive repair capabilities. Minor adjustments in gauge, perhaps a motor replacement yes, Modifying valve gear, or gear reductions, or frame and truck mounts starts to get into the skilled labor arena.

    We are talking major modifications, All I wanted them to do is check the drivers, I've heard some were in gauge, some not. The prices on these. well its was the average price,

    Rob
     
  6. William Cowie

    William Cowie TrainBoard Member

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    I agree with mcjaco - it's unrealistic to ask a retailer to check the gauge of every loco coming in. I mean, what if they're .00001" too narrow? How much is acceptable and at what point is it a reject? Probable answer: different for each customer. So what is a retailer to do?

    I also agree with Rob's basic point: it should be possible for steam manufacturers to put out a product that doesn't require major surgery upon arrival. However, the dealer's role is no more than (a) to order, carry and test to see if it runs and (b) facilitate a return to the manufacturer if indeed the unit goes bad or is DOA. They don't make enough money to do any more than that.

    Bottom line: if you find another dealer willing to check the gauge, then cool, buy from him. [​IMG]
     
  7. Colonel

    Colonel Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    It really comes down to quality control from the manufacturer I mean how many people check the gauge even when buying in person.

    However there is nothing more frustrating than ordering online only to receive a model that is defective.
     
  8. Rob de Rebel

    Rob de Rebel Permanently dispatched

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    Actually in reality, I didn't ask the retailer to check every gauge of every 2 6 6 2 just the one they were going to send me, if the item didn't pass I was asking them to test them until they did. or didn't

    Rob
     
  9. jacobmarley

    jacobmarley TrainBoard Member

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    I don't think Rob is being unreasonable at all. Although he may think that all the wheel gauges should be checked (that may be a little over the top), that's not what he asked the etailer to do. He merely asked them to check the gauges on the ones he was buying. For the sale of a couple locos and having a long term customer, I'd say it's worth it. It's those little personal things that make loyal customers.

    The thing that I would like an etailer to do is to test run a locomotive if I ask them to. Frankly, that's the one thing that makes me reluctant to order N scale (specifically steam) over the net. They are just too iffy to trust quality control from the manufacturer. How much effort does that take? One of my local guys tests every locomotive that comes in his shop. That way he knows they are good before he sells them. That way I know they are good too.
     
  10. Jeff Shriver

    Jeff Shriver TrainBoard Member

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    Japan and Europe Model Steam Loco's have
    some kind of Quality Controll, which seems
    to be missing in their American Cousins.

    Rob is totally correct, the issues here go way
    beyond tinkering. I for one, wouldn't know
    where to start turning journals or whatever
    down to so the wheels can be in gauge.
    That is just to much to expect me to have
    to do that. My Model Powers make it around
    the track, so I would think and hope that
    a higher quality(?) Loco should be able to
    do as well, which it appears a lot can not.

    These E-dealeres may of had it to good for
    to long when it comes to N Steam.

    Jeffthumper
     
  11. Sten

    Sten TrainBoard Member

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    Just looking at this, I'm glad I'm not to fussed about the internet when it comes to the purchase of things. I go to a hobby shop see something, ask for it - they give it a test run and if it works then ching ching they have a sale - if it spits and farts or falls off the track forget it put it back. That's they way it will always be for me. I only see the internet as an information centre not a supermarket - so long as micro trains bogies and evergreen styrene are avail off line ;)
     
  12. Len

    Len TrainBoard Member

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    I have to agree with Rob on this one, although my expectation of service from a deep discounting e-tailer would be somwhat less than from the LHS. The primary problem is still the abysmal QC from the manufacturer. Bachmann must have a mental block when it comes to wheel gauge. The Connie and the Mountain were fairly close to spec and easy to tweek. My new split frame 4-8-4 and 0-6-0 were close enough for straight track, but they would launch themeslves into the air at the first switch. For the price I paid, I was willing to consider them to be "Kits" and do some fiddling. For the price the customer pays for the new Mallet, he shouldn't be expected to be a machinist to make it right.

    Len
     
  13. acsxfan1

    acsxfan1 TrainBoard Member

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    I have no problems asking that the loco be checked before its shipped. If the retailer does not want to do that, I will buy from someone else. There is always a dealer online who will go the extra mile. Since I live 12 miles from woo woo woo Kleins, I generally get the locos there .. and inspect before I buy .. but have had pretty good luck with a couple of other dealers. I am particularly impressed with Chuck at FeatherRiver .. who checks out the stuff he ships to me before I get it (Disclaimer: I run The RailWire with Chuck) .. but I know he does that for others also ...
     
  14. Erik W

    Erik W TrainBoard Member

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    This is a bit off topic but has some relevance. Re gauging under gauge wheels is perhaps the easiest thing to do on a locomotive. I've done this on most of the locos I own. The only tools it requires are a small flathead jewelers screwdriver, needle nose pliers and an NMRA gauge. Here's my procedure for the drive wheels of the LL 2-8-4.
    1. Put the screwdriver between the back of the wheel and gear housing.
    2. Turn the screwdriver slightly until you feel the wheel move slightly on the axle.
    3. Do this to the other drive wheels.
    4. Put the engine on track and apply power to rotate wheels slightly.
    5. Repeat step 1.
    6. Use NMRA gauge to check wheel gauge.
    7. Repeat until they are where you want them.
    For the non drive wheels on the engine and tender I either do them on the engine or just take the axle/wheel off and use small pliers on the inside of the wheel while pushing down on a semi hard surface. The LL 2-8-4 took me about 5 minutes total. The process for diesels is even easier. The Atlas SD-7 I just bought took about 2 minutes for all 6 axles.

    Erik W
     
  15. johnh

    johnh TrainBoard Member

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    Erik, this is true in some cases, but have you read what happens when you geuge the Bman 2-6-6-2 correctly? The design causes interference and more work than it is worth.
     
  16. Rob de Rebel

    Rob de Rebel Permanently dispatched

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    Thank you gents,

    Now I gotta find a dealer (on line) that will go the extra quarter mile. because the two I usually do business won't do it.

    anyone have suggestions?

    Rob
     
  17. jacobmarley

    jacobmarley TrainBoard Member

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    Rob, my suggestions would be either Chuck @ Feather River or George @ Wig Wag. I can't speak for them as to whether they would do it or not, but they always seem to go the extra mile.
     
  18. LongTrain

    LongTrain Passed away October 12, 2005 In Memoriam

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    I do the same thing. The e-seller who currently gets about 70-75% of my hobby budget has never complained about checking them for me when I ask. I don't ask him to check everything I buy, just the stuff from certain manufacturers who have blemished records on quality control, or if there is a specific model that appears to warrant a closer look.

    Based upon other people's complaints about mechanical problems, he appears to be making sure I get "a good one" whether I ask for that or not.

    Either that, or I have been extremely lucky.

    Just my own experience over the past 3 years or so.
     
  19. Fotheringill

    Fotheringill TrainBoard Member

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    I am somewhat disturbed by the title of this thread. I do not think a bad review is any reason whatsoever to cancel a reservation, in the first place. The alternative is to wait until you see reviews and then decide to purchase the item or not. It is not fair to the retailer to have made a reservation and then cancel it. You made a commitment to the retailer. It made a commitment to the manufacturer or distributor. You should honor your commitment. If the train is not operating properly, send it back to the manufacturer for service. Period.
     
  20. Jeff Shriver

    Jeff Shriver TrainBoard Member

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    maybe it is time for the @#%& to flow in
    a backward direction. Individual buyer puts
    heat on the retailer/Etailer who then puts
    the heat on the Distributors who then puts
    the heat on the Manufacturers, maybe then
    they would get the message on Quaility
    Control. I not think it is out of line to simply
    expect to have a ready to run Steam Loco
    out of the Box, that does not require Open
    Heart Surgery.

    Jeffthumper [​IMG]
     

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