N scale DCC: Yes or No

Re., DCC: When it comes to the layout it's a simple bus around the underside of the layout. Tie in your block drop wires and waa laa you are ready to operate. With regard to the locomotives it's a tad bit more complicated. However, that can be easily over come if you have DCC ready locomotives.

Now if you want to make it complicated only because you don't want to switch over your none DCC ready locomotives and/or leave some of your equipment on analog. This becomes a little bit more complicated as you will still need to have DPDT toggled switches and run cab A on Analog and cab B on DCC...or cab of your choice.

Some DCC programs come with a analog choice. The downside to this...based on everything I've seen and heard...your analog equipment will run poorly. Better to go the extra mile and add the DPDT's. Upside would be if you already have them in place. Downside is you will need to use a larger gauge wire.

The beauty of DCC is if you are starting out brand new you can run a bus around the underside of the layout tie in your drop wires and you can get started. Of course you'll need to purchase DCC ready locomotives. The variety of such units is overwhelming.

Have fun!

 

inkaneer has a good point, if your running a small home layout and your doing a one man operation, what is the point of DCC? I can't run more than one train at a time when I'm running alone, on the same track or something vary bad will happen.

This is a really dumb statement, "Run your Trains, Not your Track", how do the switches get changed on your layout if your not running the track? You have to switch them somehow, and its not that big a deal to turn on the power saitch while your at it. When I turn the knob on my controller the train moves not the track, and I'm running DC. I use a walk around throttle, so tell me how this is much different than DCC once the train is in motion?

I'm not going to run right up behind another train or go nose to nose with another loco. If your not paying atension with DCC you can have a vary nasty head on crash, with DC if you get two trains moving toward each other, which ever one gets the to block joint first will short out the system and trip the braker and every thing stops.

DCC maybe alright for that big layout with 20 people runnign trains, but on a 4x8 that is a one train one man operation, DC will work just fine.

Now for those guys running DCC at train shows, I have never in all my years of doing train shows (20+) seen so many problems with getting the layout set up and running and keeping it running as I have with the DCC, I recall one show when it only ran for about an hour the entire day, the next day the layout was ran with DC and it work all day with out any problems. If your going to run DCC on a show layout, I think you need to build it from the ground up that way, because every thing I have seen that was DC and converted to DCC was nothing but trouble. I'm pretty sure the same thing will happen to most guys that try to convert from DC to DCC on a home layout, if it was not set up for DCC from the start, you'll have nothing but trouble.

But the guys with NEW setup running DCC never had any problems.

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I have no need for DCC on my planned layout even tho' the thought cross my mind.
Then reality struck home..A one horse operation doesn't call for DCC..

 

If you never run more than one train at a time, DCC has no advantage.

Digitrax uses this phrase to refer to the need to flip block switches when running DC with more than one train. No blocks are required (for train separation) with DCC.

Of course not, that's impossible with DC (except at block boundaries or with unequal speed locos in the same block).

True enough... PAY ATTENTION!

Yup, but also true with DCC. I enjoy running two trains counter to each other on my test loop with single siding, I also enjoy 5 loco lashups pulling 100 cars at train shows. Possible with both DC and DCC, but easier with the latter.

Train shows have their own sets of issues, as each setup is different and mistakes are easier to make and tougher to find. You would have the same issues if you broke down your home layout and set it up in a different configuration for each operating session.

DCC does suffer from a lack of knowledge/misunderstanding by some of the participants, but for those groups that run DCC all the time, the problems are no more than for the experienced DC guys.

Whatever your choice (and for whatever reason) the aim is to have fun.

Kinda like golf.

 

I am still learning DC. I will decide whether to rewire or not when ALL new engines come equiped with DCC. Part of my decision will be based upon cost, ease of switching and what to do with the 30+ engines I now have. I can assure the people here that I will not do anything to an engine that is not pure plug and play, if and when I switch.

 

Being technically challenged, I'm leery on DCC. I operate at a friend's HO DCC layout. All night long, we stop for shorts. I hear the guys' frustration with programming. Maybe they aren't so hot at it.

With no layout right now, just bought my first DCC-ready locos. Planned layout is not to be monstrous and only for me to operate, so it will be DC.

I've seen tons of layouts with DCC, and understand why people like it and undertake the effort and cost to do it.

I think it's a personal thing. Not a simple equation.

 

Can you get sound equipped decoders for N scale diesels that just drop in, or is that only for larger scales?

 

I have a big layout, so DCC was a good choice for me when I started to build it in 2002. I still have lots of locos that I haven't converted, and perhaps never will. My previous layout was block controlled, and had some tricky track. The block controls baffled many people, myself included. If I built a smaller layout, I never would have gone to DCC. I built up my roster of DCC locos over time--seven years now--and it cost a lot of money. I'll never be ahead cost-wise when compared to DC. My test loop is DC for cost reasons.

I think it's an individual choice. The cost of converting a large legacy fleet of locos can be daunting.

 

I hate when someone says that on a small layout dcc isn't advantagous. Thats rediculous! Its more advantagous, it allows a flexibility that you will never enjoy with standard dc operations with toggle switch control. On a small layout dc operated with short blocks you can run a few trains, but are limited by block length and control zones. Not so with dcc, you can run anywhere anytime even if another locomotive is on the same track. Helpers can run right up to the train to assist other locomotives. Switchers can tack cars on the train right up to the locomotive. multiple operations can happen even on a small layout. You are only limited by your imagination. Add to it the ability to modify the control parameters of the locomotives. Its an unbeatable combination, simplicity in wiring, control, advanced control options are all there with a touch of a button. Yes its more expensive, but if you account for the extra wiring and toggle switches on the standard dc layout, and add in the wiring challenges to boot. Dcc shows the advantages very well. I will never go back.

R

 

Pete-
I am no Luddite, but I do have a low tolerance level for poorly designed products, and most electronics and computer-related gear fall into that category (I've just recently come to a truce withour DVD/VCR).
That having been said, even though I am not a DCC guru and find plenty of fault with the design and user interface of most of the systems, I find operating on anything but DCC very painful.
DCC allows you to run your train, not the track. That is a significant difference. It opens up all sorts of possibilities for prototype operation. The conventional wisdom is that you don't need it on a small home layout.... but the reverse is true; if you have a conjested area (small layout, engine terminal, yard, industrial district, etc.) where you want to use several locomotives it makes it practical. Yes, you can "block" the track so that you can move things around, but it becomes very difficult to do and cumbersome to have to keep figuring out which electrical control to throw to get the desired power to the locomotive you want to run where.
And the argument against it for cost doesn't work with me either. "I have too many engines to convert" actually means "I have too many engines"..... we all do. I don't even count mine anymore after being in N Scale for over 45 years.... and ain't all of them ever going to run on my layout, so I don't have to worry about converting them.
A distinction should be made, however. If you have a style of enjoyment of the Hobby that involves setting up separate loops of track and pulling out various trains to run around a layout on them without any desire to run more than one train on a loop at one time (a perfectly legitimate choice!) then DCC may not be worth the added expense just to get control of the lights and additional sound functions. But if you want to "operate" trains with several occupying the same track for meets, helper service, switching, moving locos around engine terminals (hostling), or running several locos on industrial trackage, and you have more than one or two operators using your railroad, then DCC is the way to go.
Just my opinion; your mileage may vary and objects in your mirror may appear distorted.
Charlie Vlk

 

Time traveling to the early 90's...

Hey guys, anyone hear about that new thing people are using? What was it called again? Oh yeah.. the internet. Something about connecting your computer through your telephone line and you can see things called websites on it? Who would ever want to connect their computers to this internet thing? All I hear about it is you get problems with viruses and you have to pay so much just to get the service in the first place...


Anyone get where I'm going with this yet?

Ok coming back to today. Jolly, inkaneer, and others, you say it's not worth the switch with a small layout and hundreds of locomotives? Well, no offence but, why so worried about converting hundreds of locomotives if your layout can only handle one at a time anyways? You both said you would switch to DCC if they decoders were small enough that milling would not be necessary and cost was about $10 dollars a decoder. Well here is a decoder small enough, and here is one for $22 dollars (yes it's still more than 10, but lets be reasonable here, 10 bucks is not what it used to be.)

Now dont get me wrong, it's your choice and your choice alone. But the DCC industry is moving foreward, and with products like the two I linked above, cost and work of conversion are definitly not what you guys are making it out to be.

And as for small layouts. My layout is 60x40 inches, I run 1 steam engine, but it's DCC, I can turn the light off when it's stopped and I don't have to worry about going backwards when I ment to go forewards and vice versa. Train direction is independent of track polarity. Those are the smallest two reasons in the world to use DCC over DC.

Ok last one.. Yes, head on collisions are possible with DCC. I've never had one though, not even on my fathers layout with 5 trains running at once, switching back and fourth between left and right side of the main for passing and switching.
How many times have I flipped the wrong power toggle for a block section when my father used DC and a train took off 100 miles and hour down the staging track? More than a few.

Ok anyways, I mean no offense, and if any was caused, I appologize. My point is, the cost and work to convert to DCC is not as bad as people make it to be. 25 bucks a decoder adds up with hundereds of locos yes, but to see that many more locos independently operational on the layout.. priceless.

 

Charlie Vlk, I'm no Luddite either. I think some people just don't have the money nor the interest to switch to DCC. Block control is much like early computers, which I programmed by flipping switches. DCC is more like modern computers. So block control can work just fine for simpler layouts. I'd hate to run my present layout on block control, but it could be and was done by necessity a while back. I'm glad to be free of flipping switches, but I understand those who do not wish to convert.

I've never had a head to head collision, but I have had one train run up the back of another while I was yakking!

 

PLEASE NOTE:

All those who are contemplating DCC...and have all those noncompliant "OLD" non DCC pain in the butt diesel locomotives you cant convert or are to much of a hassle too. Contact me and I will be happy to take them off your hands for .10 on the dollar. Just think of all the decoder friendly locos or locos that have decoders already in them you can buy...hehehehe.


:tb-cool:

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So oldrk, is the picture any clearer now?

Is there something specifically that you would like to be able to do with DCC that you can't do with DC or are you just generally curious about DCC and wonder IF there is something it can offer you?

 

This is exactly it, for me. I just switched from analog to a Prodigy Express, which is quite cheap and limited, and I would never go back. The performance (in N gauge) is much better, and the moment I got it working things just felt more real and natural, with locos operating autonomously without worries about blocks, etc.

The learning curve is significant, but I think mine was steeper because I got the P. Express, which doesn't allow you to read the CVs, only write them.

 

You guys want me to conver to DCC, ok fine, GIVE ME A JOB!!!!. No Job, No Money, No DCC. I can only play with what I have for now, and some of it may end up sold to help pay bills at som epoint, but I'm selling every thing else I can to avoid that.

what I have now is DC trains and that is what I'll run. If & when I get a job and can get out of this hole I'm getting deeper in, then I'll start my dream layout, then and only then I'll look into DCC, so you guys need to get it refined and the cost down.

Diesel Mechanic for hire, inquier with in.

 

I hear ya, Jolly -- job uncertainty is one of the reasons I am building a layout as cheaply as possible (almost all scratchbuilt buildings, used equipment, used, low-end DCC system for $90 on eBay).

But if you have a working layout to run that you like, count your blessings. DCC can wait.

 

I don't think anyone is out here trying to make someone convert to DCC.

I can see how such a thing would fall down the list of priorities without employment. I offer my sincerest best wishes for your employment prospects.