UP Challenger Update

zfuture Feb 1, 2009

  1. RobertAllbritton

    RobertAllbritton TrainBoard Member

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    I keep several open padded boxes on the floor when I'm working on our steam engines. That way it can bounce directly into one of the boxes.

    They all have pre-addressed lables to Ajin's Repair department. :):):)
     
  2. Designdog

    Designdog TrainBoard Member

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    Hello Hans,
    The Challenger is going to be a beautiful model. I appreciate your courage and willingness to tackle some of the most complex miniatures ever attempted. These steam projects are putting Z scale model railroading "on the map". Already, the AZL AC-12, Cab Forward is an amazing achievement. Thank you, Hans, for bringing these projects to life!
     
  3. Z_thek

    Z_thek TrainBoard Member

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    Last weekend I had a chance to update my old 4-6-6-4 concept chassis. I've added a large flywheel, replaced the flex tube with a real flex shaft, added wheel wipers to the rear set of drivers, so the whole thing became "independent" (compare to the hard wiring of the old one).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I tested the chassis with my snail speed controller, it starts very slow. Also, tested with clean DC. It starts to move just above 1V, runs smooth, and draws between 60 -70 mAmps. This updated mechanism negotiates the 195mm radius turns even smoother, just looks a kind of stupid. The only problem I see, it's too fast. It runs as fast as the MTL F7 with top speed when receives only 3.5V. Next time I'll borrow a planetary gear set from one of my under performing (dead) F7, and install into this creature. I'm very confident, this type of drive mechanism could be the best solution for large Z-scale locomotives. Again, if it's not a bash, but a focused design, this huge motor / flywheel combination installed into the tender leaves plenty of room for lots of weight to help with amazing traction. Last week I've picked up a Canon video camera, now I'm learning how to shoot and edit videos. When you guyZ will see the smooth move of this creature, you'll agree, I'm right. Powerful steam on the American way.

    Lajos
     
  4. SJ Z-man

    SJ Z-man TrainBoard Member

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    All Aboard !

    :glasses-nerdy:
     
  5. eXact Modellbau

    eXact Modellbau TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Lajos
    It's a very interesting creature! I'm curious about the next progress steps!

    Where does the cardan shaft come from?
     
  6. Z_thek

    Z_thek TrainBoard Member

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    "Where does the cardan shaft come from?"

    They were parts of an ugly dark pink, but cheap Japanese electric locomotive (made in China). The Brand is RealZJ or PlusUp. The shafts are very good, the bell shaped ends are wobbling alot, but still works. I think you can find the same trucks and drive shafts in the PlusUp rail cars. One interesting note, the wheelbase of the trucks are almost perfect (I'm going to compromise) for my future two motor NW-2. Now, back to the 4-6-6-4, I'm finalizing a short video clip, it's a kind of boring... I'm a slow learner in the field of video editing.

    Lajos
     
  7. minzemaennchen

    minzemaennchen TrainBoard Member

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    Lajos, get on with the NW-2, we're waiting! :)
     
  8. Joe D'Amato

    Joe D'Amato TrainBoard Member

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    Yea, but it's got to make your heart sink! Regardless, amazing product...why can't I be rich!!!

    Joe
    MTL

     
  9. Z_thek

    Z_thek TrainBoard Member

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    Quote from Hans: "First, thank you all for your interest. We have not made a final decision on the drivetrain and we truly value comments and ideas. I will actually alert our builder in Korea to this blog."

    Now, I know, the experimental 4-6-6-4 chassis works fine. My next step was to adopt the design to the real Challenger. Well, it came out very nice from my AutoCad lab. This concept looks even more promising than ever before. There is room for everything, including amazing power and traction.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The jpg images are not really clear, so here is the link to the downloadable pdf sheet. The print should show the Challenger concept in actual size.
    http://www.zthek.com/id133.htm
    Hans, if you can use this concept to power your upcoming beauty, I'm glad to send you the AutoCad file and any other necessary information (obviously free of charge), so the actual engineering work can be substantially shortened.

    Lajos
     
  10. TechRepJapan

    TechRepJapan Permanently dispatched

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2011
  11. JoeS

    JoeS TrainBoard Member

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    Lajos, I think thatis an excellent project. Also I give you credit for what you have done with the SW 1. If nothing else you provide clear pictures for the rest of us to learn from. Well done!
     
  12. SJ Z-man

    SJ Z-man TrainBoard Member

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    Yeah Lajos ! Make you sure you get tip'd for those ideas !
    .
     
  13. Garth-H

    Garth-H TrainBoard Supporter

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    Lajos Have taken a couple of hours to go through this conversation thread and look a the pictures. The only problem I see and it has kept me from doing it using this approach end up with the two articulation points too far apart. I think you would get better performance with a gear towers close together at the front of the rear engine and at the rear of the front engine. Have you though of turning the chassi to run back to back with the articulated coupoling on the lower shaft between the chassis and one reduction step on one of the chassis use to raise the drive point to the height of the motor shaft and run that back to the tender across the top of the rear engine. I must say I like the work you have done so far. Can't wait to see the video of the chassis moving. I would like to see Joe's work place come up with another set of curved radii at 270 and 295 or 295 and 320 which would be just about right for this beast to look good.

    cheers
     
  14. Z_thek

    Z_thek TrainBoard Member

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    "I think you would get better performance with a gear towers close together at the front of the rear engine and at the rear of the front engine."

    Are you talking about the design adopted to the actual Challenger ( http://www.zthek.com/id133.htm ) or the bash? There are serious issues with the overhangs and the cab / tender transition. Also, the correct place of flex shafts is an important pivot location determining factor too. My experimental chassis is only for concept, it doesn't work with the real proportions of the Challenger. But I'll continue to fine tune the design to prove its strength and later convert it to a "Train Show Monster". Here is the link to the video: http://vimeo.com/3291063

    Lajos :0)
     
  15. Z_thek

    Z_thek TrainBoard Member

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    One more quick note I didn't mention before. The articulating points of the towers, leading and trailing tracks are in the appropriate close distance. The main pivot points are the suspension points of the locomotive body (shell) to guide it thru the curves with optimized overhangs and providing with a kind of synchronized alignment between the back of cab and front of tender.

    Lajos :0)
     
  16. ztrack

    ztrack TrainBoard Supporter Advertiser

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    Jeffrey White sent me this video link. I think I need to rethink the Challenger. Hmmm... intermodal and steam... what a combo!

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhgHrDbN4EU&feature=channel_page"]YouTube - UP 3985 + 143 Freight Cars[/ame]
    =

    Rob
     
  17. TechRepJapan

    TechRepJapan Permanently dispatched

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2011
  18. DPSTRIPE

    DPSTRIPE TrainBoard Supporter

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    When they use the Challenger for promotional or excursion runs, they let it earn its keep on the way home. I have seen quite a few pictures of the Challenger pulling modern freight.
    Dan S.
     
  19. ztrack

    ztrack TrainBoard Supporter Advertiser

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    Jeffrey has filled me in on the back ground story. The video was filmed on the morning of August 1, 1990. The Union Pacific 4-6-6-4 Challenger 3985 was coming out of the Cheyenne, Wyoming yard with what was described as "the heaviest steam powered freight train since the 50’s". Its destination was North Platte, Nebraska. On the draw bar were 143 cars, 7657 tons at 8900 feet in length.

    This spectacular run was the result of a special request from the AMERICAN PRESIDENT LINES for a steam-hauled APL Doublestack train.

    A week earlier the Union Pacific had scheduled 3985 on a test freight run to LaSalle, Colorado to see if it was able to fufill this special request by one the UP'S biggest clients.
     
  20. Loren

    Loren TrainBoard Supporter

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    Rob,

    As Elvis would say "That's a hunka hunka burnin love" Beautiful locomotive"
     

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