Talking to the people at Rail Enthusiast today, they were saying they arent importing ANY more locos with DCC in them... only the DCC ready.. The reason is nobody in N Scale anyway is buying them I thought people would have grabbed em over the Non DCC... any other people noticed that?
I'm not into DCC so I have not been paying too much attention. If this was true, I wonder if it’s just a production adjustment in order to give the customer flexibility as to which decoder they want to install (since there are more possibilities?). I have noticed that some Atlas re-releases have not come DCC ready (like the RS1). Maybe this has more to do with the cost of re-designing the frame to be DCC ready? Maybe they feel that most that purchase this type of locomotive would not be interested in DCC anyway? If I had the money, I would go DCC. Maybe that has something to do with it too?
While it is a nice feature for some, it is an uneeded complication for others, like me. When I build my large around the room railroad, I still only plan to operate one locomotive at a time. So, DCC is simply not cost effective for me, plus I have some "heritage" locomotives that are extensively kitbashed that would be a wondrous challenge to equip with DCC. [ June 24, 2005, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Thirdrail ]
I believe only Atlas offers loco's with DCC chips installed. The brand of decoder they use isn't the brand I prefer, hence I don't buy DCC equipped loco's from atlas. If atlas were to offer a modern diesel with a Digitrax decoder (many are sold with Lenz decoders) then IMHO they would sell more. The problem may stem from the fact that Digitrax is like 80% of the DCC market, and N-scale plug and play decoders suffer occasional supply problems. Perhaps that is the reason atlas uses Lenz? BTW third I respect you too much to respond to the delusional claim.
I agree with ednsfan....Atlas doesn't use the digitrax BEMF decoders because of the price point. I think they are wrong and prefer BEMF so I install my own which is no big deal. Actually Atlas should do what KATO does and make one model - DCC ready so the dcc user and non-dcc user can't make fictitious claims
I'm new to DCC, so not using all the various functions that are available. But after a recent problem with the Lenz decoder in my GP40, I won't be buying any more engines that are decoder equipped. For simplicity, I'll stick with Digitrax decoders.
When I was at Kato I conceived and initiated the "drop in light board" that included clearance in the frame and shell for a replacement DCC board. My design was shared with all the DCC decoder manufacturers. My original design was implemented by Atlas and Digitrax; Kato's factory improved upon my original concept by adding the "wings" which allowed the original split frame motor to be used and also changed the frame so that the boards could be exchanged without disassembling the mechanism. I wanted to make the locomotive "DCC Friendly" rather than factory DCC equipped for a number of reasons: 1) keeps number of item numbers half of what they would be with DCC equipped locos 2) gets loco manufacturer out of the DCC problem business.... only have to worry that mechanism works properly on analog DC.... no issues with programing errors, faulty DCC hookups, bad decoders 3) Any factory-equipped loco is going to tend to have the lowest cost, bare bones decoder in it from the cheapest supplier.... not necessarily the one you want in your loco. Drop-in board allows you to install decoder of your choice with the headlights/special effects you want. I would not read too much into the "trend" reported in this thread; DCC is here to stay and is growing. The advent of sound equipped locomotives (even though the bulk of the functions work on analog) will trigger more people to convert. In Europe, even low-end trainsets come with DCC. There are "work arounds" for DCC but none but radio schemes address individual control of locomotives vs. control of fixed track sections. Radio is compromised for throttles much less as a link from throttle to loco. DCC is going to be around for a while. Charlie Vlk Railroad Model Resources Who is Rail Enthusiast and where???
charlie, thanks for the history lesson. point well taken, as kato lokeys are MUCH easier to chip than atlas IMHO. I LOVE not having to loosen the frame to install the decoder. having a non-DCC lightboard allows one to see if a lokey works well, since DCC will not make a bad lokey run better. A Job Well Done Kemosabe!!
Speaking for me ! I prefer to buy decoder equipped locos, as it saves me the install process and cost no more. The Lenz board is fine for my use. I would ONLY buy Atlas decoder-Ready locos, if they CHANGE the install method to be like KATO;s drop/slide in method. Unscrewing locomotive frame halves (or just loosening) seems backwards. If Atlas would make theirs like the KATO drop in - I would not mind installing them myself and would purchase loco Decoder READY. 2 cents worth P.S. - THANK YOU CHARLIE !
Tony - here's another view; My Teenage son showed little interest in putting a train on the track and turning a knob. The thrill was short lived - For HIM. Regardless of the price..... But, when he was shown a control throttle and shown how HE can control the train (and lighting effects) and computer gizmos, he is interested and thinks that it is 'Cool'. His game boy/playstations, etc. cost wayyy more than a DCC loco - so at least, because of DCC, he-as a teenager, has some interest. For some people- DCC is just the ticket to get their interest....others - not.
Bruce: Atlas is the only company that puts a decoder in their diesel loco's. I've used DCC for years, and most long time users of DCC buy loco's without decoders in them, and then install the decoder of their choice in the loco's. The decoders installed at the factory for Atlas loco's are basic decoders that don't give me the functions I want in a decoder. So I do buy DCC ready loco's, not DCC equipped loco's. As for the popularity of DCC, DCC is making great strides and advances. Many companies such as Bachmann and PCM for examples will be routinely installing decoder chips and sound in their loco's. Yes, the technology is advancing in N scale which is good for the industry and in particular N scale. Stay cool and run steam....
Edited by Pete Nolan. The original post was withdrawn with apologies; therefore the response has been deleted also. [ June 21, 2005, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Pete Nolan ]
Quote edited by Pete Nolan at request of original author I have access to three different types of layouts. My Father and mine, which is straight DC, mine, which is DCC with hand throws, and the Kearney and Black Hills which has hand throws and tortoises. The whole idea behind DCC is to ba able to run your railroad more like a real railroad without all the wiring of blocks, lighting functions and sound (if you choose). YES, you can do this with DC but, the electronics start becoming costly and for the Average Joe (like me) the thought of wiring up two feeders rather than multiple ones to rails and toggles......it was a no brainer. As for the rising costs....that's mularkey. Decoder prices and system costs have dropped to almost 50% of when this started 8+ years ago. At that time, I remember freaking out because the new HO Kato C-44-9W was going to cost $110 MSRP. That was when loco costs starting sky rocketing. I was working at a hobby shop at the time and that's what was coming down the pike, higher quality, more expensive models. I bet if you added up the costs of all the wiring, elctronics, etc. for a DC layout and the cost of decoders and a DCC system on a lyout of the same size.....it'd be close to a wash. [ June 21, 2005, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Pete Nolan ]
Hey guys - let's all chill. It started as someone wondering why DCC chips won't be pre-installed anymore and it ended up about a comment on someone's education. So much hostility over this, you would think we're talking politics or religion. Back to the original question - I would think it makes sense to keep the locos DCC ready and let the customer choose their decoder.
That's what I said in my original post.. That's why I buy DCC ready loco's. I also buy loco's that aren't DCC ready. I just mill the figure or figure out a way to install a decoder. For example the MDC 2-8-0's. All of my MDC 2-8-0's are running with decoders. The coal loads aren't raised and the flywheels aren't cut off. If a loco has a frame and a motor, you can install a decoder in that loco with some creativity. Stay cool and run steam.....
The vast majority prefer DCC and can see no other interpretation. Oh, I also stated I had two wires to my layout, kind of hard to have any DC blocks with only two wires. [ June 24, 2005, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Thirdrail ]
What I would like to see is a smart compromise that Charlie touched on and Bob also "suggested"; make the locos dcc ready (really ready like KATO) and leave it up to the Model Railroader to decide what is best for their situation - to DCC or not! I will tear into most any non split frame loco to put the decoder of my choice in. That's not for everybody to do or want to take on and that's ok by me. It's one of the many aspects of this hobby that I enjoy. If you don't; ok by me. I'm not sure I could appreciate sound coming out of an n scale loco as I can't visualize realistic sounds coming from a speaker that small BUT if others appreciate it; great, it doesn't bother me. I hope that I haven't stepped on anybody but I just try to have fun doing what I do and if there is an idea that can be thrown out there that can possibly benefit the hobby as a whole; why not toss it around instead of thrashing it to pieces. Just my thoughts, yours may vary...... Brian [ June 21, 2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: sapacif ]
Seems we are chilling out now. Good thing to do! Please do make your remarks civil in all circumstances. Thanks.
I'll take that bet! My layout is DC that has 19 blocks. 19 spdt switches @ $.79 = $15.01 2 power packs @ $10 = $20.00 Wire, about $1.50 Total cost to wire my layout = $36.51 When a DCC system plus 27 decoders to equip my locos (and lord knows that number will only increase in time) becomes a “wash” with that, I’ll convert Nelson
