Hi All! New to this section of the forum, looks like great deal if info and knowledge here. I am in the design stages of my next layout. Basics: Scale: "N" Area to work with: 14'x24' with some obstructions so "serpentine" benchwork and multi-levels are OK. Era: 1953-1963 Roads: NYC, NH, B&O, PRR (also thinking D&H) Primary interest: RR Interchanges - Freight & Passenger traffic Secondary interest: Freight Switching Since I have 4+ roads that I am interested in (NYC is primary), I would like to design a layout with a prototype "feel" that could incorporate interchanges between any/all of these roads. This could be as simple as some staging tracks and a connection to the main line or something more complex like an interchange yard. I'm not looking for a 100% match on any one, but would like to capture the flavor of the various roads. Where the heck can I start to gather this info? You guys would probably know where to find the appropriate rail maps, and various websites for detail photographs of trackside features & stations for my "era". Any help in getting my research off to a good start would be appreciated!! Also, feel free to make suggestions if you think I'm nuts... (it's too late for councilling however...) laugh: Thanks in advance!
Bob, welcome to the NY Central forum. I am not a modeler, but may be able to help with some of your plans. I know the NYC did some interchange with the D&H in Troy, NY, but I think it was mostly passenger. The time period you have chosen is a great one, as it was during the transition from steam to diesel, and some mainline steam still existed on the Central. Then there was the bridge over the Hudson River at Peekskill (Hank, am I right?) where the NY,NH and H interchanged with the Central. There are some other folks who show up here who model and have knowledge of parts of the system that I lack. :tb-biggrin:
Thanks Fitz, I have a few engines which sort of fit in that time frame. I need to research more on them, since I lost a book that had ALL the diesel info. E7/E8, GP20, and a 4-6-4 #5405 (not sure when that went out of service maybe 1955??) Still looking for details on the routes. Thanks!
5405 probably lasted till the end of steam in 1956. My own personal recollections of freight power during the diesel transition were Alco FA's, RS-3's, and a smattering of those rare Baldwin and Erie built engines, and EMD F units. LOTS of Alco FA's went through Little Falls, NY, my hometown, during that period. :tb-biggrin:
Well, you had the NH bridge at Poughkeepsie, which carried the NH to Maybrook, NY. There NH interchanged with NYC, L&HR, NYO&W, Erie, L&NE, that might be it. On the eastern side of the Hudson river, NYC and NH interchanged at Beacon, NY. All your roads but the D&H interchanged in NJ/NYC area. You can always move things around some, though. Maybe a northern influence for NYC/D&H/Rutland/B&M traffic, and another section of the layout could be further south with B&O/PRR/NYC/CNJ/Reading? Just a thought.
Yup, 1961. Found my engine books in the basement! I'll keep the "others" away while #5405 is on the rails. Also found a GP-7. Those ran all the way till Conrail.
Cool. I like the "north" and "south" idea. Also found out the Canadian National ran engines right through MA down to New London, CT! Wow! Looks like I need more engines! :tb-biggrin:
Hi Guys, sorry I'm late to this, but our sons and grand-urchins were all in town this past week to celebrate our 50th anniversary, so it was kinda busy, doncha know....:w20z6q: 'Tanyrate, the NH crossed the Hudson at Poughkeepsie as said earlier. However, it did interchange with NYC Harlem Div. at Brewster, NY. Actually it was the New England Central that interchanged with the NYC, but the NEC was absorbed by the NH sometime in the 20's. D&H passenger interchanged with the B&M at Eagle Bridge, NY, then had trackage rights on the B&M into Troy, NY, where a D&H coach was transferred across the Hudson to the NYC at Albany for continuation to GCT. Rode that transfer a couple of times in '50 and '51. Also D&H passenger did come directly into the Albany NYC station on their own rails, but it was on the "basement" level, below the NYC tracks. So if you wanted to continue on to GCT on the Central, you had to climb up to the Central's platforms. The B&M Fitchburg Div. interchanged freight with the Central at Rotterdam Jct., NY, west of Mechanicsville, NY where the D&H shared the yard with the B&M. Johnsonville, NY is where B&M passenger traffic split off the B&M Fitchburg Div. to get to the Troy passenger station. D&H and Rutland both had trackage rights on the B&M, the D&H from Eagle Bridge, NY, and the Rutland from North Hoosick, NY. The "Susie Q" (New York, Susquehanna & Western) interchanged with the Central somewhere in the Albany, Schenectedy area, but I don't know any details. Then of course, there was the NYC West Shore from Selkirk Yard down to Weehawken, NJ, but I don't know anything about that in any way....sorry. Oh yeh, the NYC Putnam Div. split from the Harlem Div. at Brewster, NY. The PUT never went into "The City" directly, stopping both freight and passenger at High Bridge in the Bronx, where it transferred passengers cross-platform to Hudson Div. commuters into GCT, and freight cars to the Hudson Div. for delivery in the Bronx, lower Manhattan, or by barge across the Hudson to Weehawken. There was lots of NYC interchange activity along the Hudson between Schenectady and New York City in the early 50's. Unfortunately, I don't remember that much of it...sorry.
Holy cats you guys have some great info. I have to figure out some way of organizing it so I can get some photos to go with the descriptions linked to the trackage for the given time-frame. I think I'm getting a headache... :thumbs_up: I wonder if there are any photos of those underground tracks in Albany? I have an idea...
Bob, try posting this question on the D&H Fallen Flags Forum, Darren (Stourbridge Lion) may have, or know of some photos, or at least some historical writings. BTW, the D&H tracks were not "underground" in the strict sense, they were below the first floor within the Albany station, but opened up to an at-grade level coach yard south of the station. Albany is built on the west side of the Hudson River canyon where everything slopes up from the River. The station, and the Central's tracks were next to, and 25-30 feet above the level of the river bank, and the city went uphill towards the west from there, as much as 400-500 feet. The Central's westbound grade out of the station was so steep that many of the heavier passenger trains required helper service for about 2-1/2 miles towards Schenectady, 20th Century Limited and Empire State Express included. I should add that the height of the Central's tracks in Albany station was dictated by the height of the bridge that crossed the Hudson from Rensselaer. Whereas the D&H tracks, coming from the north and not having to cross the river, were at river level.
Castleton Cutoff Having slept, I remember two other "interchanges" south of Albany, both involving the Castleton Cutoff. The Central's cross-Hudson bridge at Castleton, NY was built in the 1920's allowing freight traffic to avoid Albany, its congestion, and the severe westbound grade. Westbound (north by compass) Hudson Div. freights from NYC were switched off the river line at Stuyvesant, NY, climbing a gradual upgrade to the northeast then turning west across the bridge, ending at Selkirk Yard, built at the same time. Also, B&A freights from the east were switched off the main somewhere west of Chatham, NY and routed to the Castleton bridge. http://www.geocities.com/penney_vanderbilt/Trains/Castleton1.html
Hank, your memory is fantastic. It has rekindled some of mine. For instance I thought that NH connection was in Peekskill, maybe because of all the photos taken in Peekskill. Of course it was Poughkeepsie. And the Castleton cutoff....................:tb-sad:
Love the Poughkeepsie RR Bridge! I guess something like that could be done with selective compression. There was even a castle on the Hudson Line south of Beacon... Neat stuff! I think once I can get my hands on a decent JPG of each state NY/PA/CT/MA/VT etc I can start compiling some data. Keep the awesome ideas coming!! :thumbs_up:
C'mon Jim, thanks, but I find that my Random Access Write-Only Memory has become so overloaded with miscellaneous BS that it has begun to barf at obscure and embarrassing occasions. I have two memories of the NH line that crossed the Hudson at Poughkeepsie. My brother and I were flying above the line near Stormville, NY in 1947 when we saw a westbound freight with a bunch of Alco F units on point, possibly four, snaking around hills. The other time I was riding on a northbound Harlem train somewhere north of Brewster, and looked east across a small lake to see a southbound NH freight. I was very surprised because, other than the NH bridge over the Harlem at Towners, I had no clue that the NH paralleled the Harlem that close. BTW, the only connnection I had with Peekskill was that it was the location of my Draft Board....BOO/HISS!
Bob, that was Bannerman's Arsenal on Pollepel Island. I remember seeing it many times during the late 40's and early 50's from Hudson Div. trains. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollepel_Island http://www.hudsonvalleyruins.org/yasinsac/bannerman/bannerman.html
I still can't find any photos of the Albany station. Even in this computerized age, hunting for data is severely frustrating. Lots of photos "say" Albany, but they end up being close-ups of some engine or something like that. Any decent books out there for NYC stations? Might be able to beg, borrow or, ahem, "borrow" a copy somewhere... smile:
Bob, I hope some of these may help you. http://www.familyoldphotos.com/8c/2u/union_railroad_station_yards_alb.htm http://www.allposters.com/View_High...45&sc=False&ct= Found Image Press&cw=20&ch=20 http://cgi.ebay.com/Albany-New-York...temQQimsxZ20090203?IMSfp=TL090203152005r39895 http://www.oldpostcards.com/d/dep-NY030.html http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=169478 http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35352
Good stuff! LOVE those E7s too!! Signed up for Railimages, looks like I can "favorite" photos and that will help my research. Thanks for the links! Now to find a track diagram...
Bob, I suggest that you try to find a diagram(s) of the entire area including Troy, Watervliet, Cohoes, Rennselaer, and Albany. That area was a bowl of spaghetti as far as passenger and freight interchanges were concerned. The B&M, D&H, and Rutland cars interchanging with the Central from Troy were routed across the Hiudson via the Green Island bridge. Though the D&H trains from Montreal came down the west side of the Hudson through Cohoes. The B&A trains from Boston and Pittsfied came through Greenbush and Rennselaer, then across the Hudson. There may be more, but that's all I remember at the moment. Oh yeh, don't forget the D&H terminal and yards below and just south of the station.
