Since I'm new to this stuff, can anyone answer this? I'm using Code 80 Atlas turnouts, #4 or whatever the normal cheapest model is. The Kato 2-8-2 rides OVER the frog of one, almost seems as though it's literally on top of the RAIL. It is exceedingly annoying and I see no way to fix it. Is it just me and do I need to get it replaced(it's a week old), or is it fixable easily and inexpensively? The cars I have with MT wheels do not ride over but ride in the flanges. Wheels of the Mikado appear to be about the same gauge as the freight cars, which increases my confusion. Thanks in advance!
I have had to use the edge of a file on mine.... to file done the bottoms of the frogs...seems some freight cars rideup on them too. It does seem to help...some . JMO .
You say the wheels of the engione "appear" to be the same gauge as the MTL cars. But are they really? Only way of knowing is to get an NMRA track gauge and measure them. This track gauge is a absolute must for any model's tool box. Another point here. We all began with the number 4 turnouts as they were part of the "set track". But beware that a number four is an extremely sharp turnout and is used in those places where a larger turnout won't fit such as on crowed docks or city switching trackage and for short cars. Running long cars such as passenger cars or autoracks through them [especially in a ladder track configuration] is only begging for derailmaents. I would use the largest size turnout on the mainline. I realize we like to squeeze in the most railroading we can in the smallest available space but that urge should be resisted in the quest of better operation.
My guess would be that the gauge of the drivers on the Mike had NOTHING to do with riding up on the frog. As INKANEER stated: Get an NMRA Gauge and check that EVERYTHING is in gauge. Track, rolling stock and engines. You should always check everything with a gauge before you put it on the track. You cannot blindly accept that all track and wheels are in perfect gauge every time. I am talking about NEW IN BOX, and used items. EVERYTHING, PERIOD. My guess is that you are attempting to use TOO sharp of a turnout for a 2-8-2. Look at the wheel base on the Mike. Those drivers are a lot longer wheelbase than a 3 axle truck under a diesel and an even longer wheelbase than a 2 axle truck. Don't expect real good performance with engines with 3 axle trucks and steam power bigger than a 0-6-0. My PERSONAL rule is that I DO NOT USE #4 Turnouts in any yard or mainline. The only place you will find a #4 turnout is on a couple of INDUSTRIAL sidings on the INDIANA RAILWAY. These sidings will have restrictions on them, NO road power will be allowed on them(2-8-8-2, 2-6-6-2, & 2-10-2) only small industrial engines(Shay's, 0-4-0 & 0-6-0) will be permitted. If a road engine needs to make a pick up or drop at said sidings, it will have to use a handle to move the car(s).
Guys, I'm on a 2x4 foot board--the turnouts are WIDER than my end corners, which don't have a problem... And it does it going straight too. According to my limited logic, it is very hard to make a curved radius issue affect the straight part of the turnout.... If I had room to run larger turnouts, I would, but I still don't think that's the problem. The engine literally runs OVER the frog--i.e. front and rear trucks LIFT UP going over it, as do the tender trucks. Any more suggestions? I'm going to try filing it as soon as I get a small enough file. And where might I buy a standards gauge? Neither of the two hobby shops in St. Louis appears to stock them... I should probably add that the engine runs fine even through my absolutely horrific joints on the two corners of the line with no problem, and there are definitely some gauge issues there(rail joiners temporarily until I learn soldering, so the joiner on the inner rail is bent outward).
Another possibilty... If you have a spare turnout...or can see straight into any on your layout...set a small flashlight on the track (power off) in front of the loco...and look under the loco as you push it across the turnout. Make sure the couplers (or any parts thereof) arent hitting the frog...causing the loco to 'lift'. Trip pins are notorious for doing just that. I found 2 of my freightcars quit 'jumping' at turnouts when I removed all the trip pins on my couplers...and went to 'manual' uncoupling. Just a thought. :tb-wink::tb-cool: .
Robbie, it sounds like the wheels of your loco are too narrow to go thru frog of the turnout. Take your loco with the power off, and push it thru the turnout. You might feel some hesitation or it might become harder to push while the wheels go thru the frog area. I've had this happen to me on my handlaid turnouts, when I get the guard rail too close to the stock rail. Like what was said, I'd get an NMRA gauge to check the loco's wheels. MBKlein has them in stock: woo woo woo - NMRA 98-8 Standards Gauge N Scale They are another "must have" tool in N scale model railroading. -Mike
Not refuting anything being said...but just being a curious old goat... If wheels are to narrow...wouldnt they 'ride up' on the inner verticle egde of the frog? And if they did wouldnt they be to narrow to run on the regular rail on a layout...and derail? If wheels are to wide...wouldnt they ride up on the outer vertical edge of the frog...and also ride up on the top of the track rail too...and cause derailments? I only ask because it would seems logical to me. I would think that deep flanges running against the bottom of a frog could/would throw a wheelset up. Or some portion of something under the piece of equipment sliding across the top of the frog...that may run ok between track rails otherwise...could be the culprit. Truck housings on locos? Screws hanging down? Couplers hanging to low? Trip pins? Any number of other causes other then wheel gauge? I absolutely agree 100% however that a wheel gauge is a must piece of tools to own, and use regularly !! But it almost always ends up being something simple yet the most irritating to find...IMO... :tb-wink: . .
George, you curious old goat :tb-wink: it could very well be any of the problems you stated. I'm just giving another possibility to the problem. Those Kato wheels have quite a wide tread on them, so if the wheel gauge is too narrow, they would still run the rails just fine, but the flanges will hit the guard rail or the frog and cause the loco to "ride up" over the frog area. -Mike
Mike...You somehow know me too well...LOL Yea...just throwing out more possibilties myself. Of which...another 'problem' I found on an older turnout >>> DIRT ! Dirt...like you get on the rails...that collected and packed on the bottom of the frog groove...and caused 'wheel hop'. Simply running a small screwdriver tip thru the frog a few times fixed that one ! BTW Mike? The flanges on those Mikado loco wheels...are they more 'pizza cutter'...or more 'low pro'? I ask because Robbie says his MT's (possibly a lower profile) on cars go thru ok....hmmmm Like I say...so many possibilities...so many solutions...:tb-wink: ***SNAPS FINGERS*** Anyone remember Wayne Szalinski (Rick Moranis) the crazy scientist who invented that miniaturizing machine in the movie "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!" I could make one of those...shrink my kids...and rent em out to 'inspect' trouble areas on peoples N Scale layouts !!! Hmmmm....just think of the $$$$$$ I could make (scratching my chin and rolling my eyes)...LOL :tb-biggrin::tb-cool: .
The MT wheels are about double the profile of the Mikado's drivers. It appears to be a gauge issue, and only with a single Atlas turnout; I only have two at the moment, and while the Mikado tracks fine over one it rides over the other. It does appear the Mikado is too narrow for the frog. However... According to this forum post Atlas turnouts have some issues with gauge. Would it help to dremel out the flangeways of the frog to make them wider? Or do I really have to rip apart my only engine(at the moment) and learn regauging? Thanks for the tips! EDIT: I should probably add that it's a right hand switch, not left hand as indicated in the nscale.net forum post.
Thanks for the link to the other forum post. On my layout, I took a fair amount of time weighing various options about five years ago, and settled on Atlas Code 80, utilizing #6's on the main, and #4's for my yard ladders. I tinkered with rolling stock, ran my intermodal and autoracks, etc, and was pleased with the choice and the cost. I picked up 40 or so turnouts, a bunch of track, and started on my staging yard and helixes up to my main level. I was striving for reliable track in the partially hidden staging yard, and was quite happy with the results. A couple of kids later, I am finally back to working on things over the past few months, and just completed a portion of my main level using turnouts and track purchased over the past few years. Half my turnouts work great -- things are in gauge, points are thin with adequate space, and are held in snug, and stuff tracks just fine over them. The other half experience issues similar to what is mentioned in this thread + the other form post -- the points are thicker, and are loose at the hinge. So, I began searching out some info over the past few weeks, and after spending some time studying a perfectly good #6 just purchased and another #6 purchased a few months ago that was causing me fits, there are definitely variables in production. I suppose I will take a look and see what can be done to improve these turnouts, but looking at how the points are attached to the throwbar and the flimsy design of the poor turnouts vs solid construction in others, I am not sure how successful I will be. I do know the next order of track will now likely be a few pieces of Micro Engineering to see if I make the switch.
To Erben: If you have the chance, look at the latest Reality Reduced installment. Leo lays out the various turnout offerings. Sometimes, knowing too much is not good. I did visit a layout here in metro Phila on Saturday. The builder used the Atlas flex track and a lot of Atlas turnouts (with PECO turnouts in many places as well). They looked fine and nary was there a derailment, especially through the interlockings built to represent the Sandpatch area. In fact, the switch machines were removed from the Atlas and mounted under the layout. For referencing, obtain a coy of the Model Railroader issue dealing with constructing the track on the BNSF project layout they did representing the Prairie du Chien area. Some very good pointers regarding upgrade of mass produced turnouts for operating reliability. In any event, there are variations in quality of the same product from lot to lot. Gauging and filing efforts are very productive for eliminating these deficiencies.
Thanks! I filed down the frog and point rails by such a small amount that it is REALLY hard to tell the difference...and this turnout now works better than the other one. Guess it's time for more filing on THAT one...:tb-biggrin:
