I think the boxes are a nice touch: When my first runners pack arrived my initial thought was "Wow, that is fancy!" It looks like the whole package is designed to make the content look valuable. I also like the nice big photo of the content. But as with most boxes it went to the big pile of empty boxes (as my cars are stored in office drawers). I would have bought the cars without the red boxes and I assume that the collectors value will not be driven by the packaging. It appears to me that the boxes increase the "store appeal" and make for an excellent gift (hint to wife) as they look "rich". If MT can offset the (potentially) higher cost compared to shrink wrapping by additional sales I am all in favour of these boxes. The more MT sells the better is our chance to get new and exciting cars from them. Cheers Dirk
When Joe D was a young man and went shopping for a dress shirt he wound up at A Lord & Taylor dept store when he purchased the fine shirt the store refolded the shirt wrapped it in tissue paper and laid it in a fine white solid handsome box before placing it a transport bag to go..as he skipped, singing a happy song back to the escalator Joe always remembered that first wonderfull experiance about packaging Now that's service thought young Joe,...the rest is history....
I think this is a problem many of us feel. You are not alone! You put much more thought into this than I did; and I see your points. I guess whatever's easiest!
I have never met Joe, but now, I have a mental image of Joe skipping down the street, with a fancy department store bag in his hand.....
I am more and more convinced that MT is not interested in manufacturing rolling stock for people to run on a layout. They are interested in creating a market for collectors. Everything is in limited quantity now. You have to pre-order anything if you want to get it, because they only make a few more than those that were pre-ordered. Atlas has started making hoppers with data only, so you can decal them with your road name/number. They'll sell a heck of a lot more to those that want to have different road numbers on the car. They even started making locomotives painted for different roads with no road number. (HELLO MR. KATO. ARE YOU LISTENING?) Micro trains can't even seem to make anything undecorated any more. It's been a couple years since I have seen undecorated box cars in stock anywhere. They are concentrating on the collector market, making $35 box cars (Micro-Trains | The Ultimate in N and Z scale model trains - Chesapeake & Ohio®). Why put low profile wheels in the jewel case if your target market isn't even going to take them out of the box in the first place? Why is it a "jewel" case and not just a plastic container?
They make what sells the best. The largest market seems to be the ready to run crowd. Change wheels? You got to be kidding. When one of the local shops in Houston closed and moved to Colorado, I picked up a bunch of undec Microtrain cars at discount. They were in blister packs on cardboard. They must have been hanging on the hook for years as the dust was thick on top of the blister. They just don't sell for some reason. I have been told that the way the tax structure is set up these days, you have to pay tax on unsold inventory. So it is in the best interest of companies to not over produce. Just the way things are these days.
Excuse me, but I think Atlas spells "PRE ORDER" the same way for its hoppers, including the data only ones, that everyone else is. OK to express disdain for MTL going to more pre-orders. Not OK to imply that no one else in N Scale is doing precisely the same thing. The C&O Cameo Cars that are $35 are works of art. I doubt that anyone else could pull these off. You don't have to buy them. The price points of "ordinary" cars across the spectrum of manufacturers are either at $20 or getting there fast, with the two exceptions of Atlas Trainman and "entry level" equipment. In addition, I've been told that unnumbered locos were not the best thing since sliced bread in the marketplace. More inventory for hobby shops to look after and limited (though passionate) appeal to a relatively few model railroaders. I happen to like them as it's less work to unletter one for my freelanced line, but I believe I am very much in the minority.
My initial impression of seeing the first of the runner packs was that MTL was employing reverse psychology. Make something allegedly for runners but dress it up fancy and create the impression that it will one day be a collectable. As for the undecorated cars, TexnRails used to sell MTL undecs. In March of 2007 I ordered some 2 bay offset side hoppers. 14 months later I cancelled the order and bought the Atlas cars. MTL even put out a 2 bay offset side car as the June 2008 release so why no undecs?
I hope you are not implying that Micro-Trains not willing to sell undecs any longer is the fault of TexNrails. You could have placed the order with ANY e-tailer and had the same result.
Personally, I like the packaging. From a sales and marketing point of view, it sets the product apart. I think that MTL is doing a good job in presenting the product. I think it's a solid concept. Just my 2 cents worth.
Have we come to the point in this hobby where we have nothing better to do than complain about a box?Just wondering...I say lets be thankful
Atlas and MTL are guilty of the same crime against humanity. When I'm ready for a batch of undec's they do not offer them for a few years. Same thing with dimi-data models! When I cannot afford them, they put out a run of what I need. The manufacturers cannot account for our personal foibles or personal situations. They sell as much as they can, when they can. If a red box sells more... have at it! If it costs $35.00 to bring a very nice model to market and it sells... sell it. I have 3 runner packs, they fit my needs. The rest I have passed on. Not a problem. I buy what fits my needs and pass on the rest. I have a ton of N&W decals to find for the stuff that I already have anyhow. While Athearn puts out bad models, paint and BigBoys; MTL over packages or puts out pizza cutters and specialty items, my wallet is recharging. Bob
So let's take the Grandstanding of the original post a bit farther... to its extreme conclusion: Model Railroading, in its Entirety, is Bad for the Environment and should be Discontinued Forthwith. The plastic that most of it is made of, and contained in for packaging, is from petroleum and requires glues and paints that could be toxic. Who knows what heavy metals and toxins are in those power supplies and decoders. What's really in that lumber and MDF (waferboard) and Homasote? Don't even get me started on that Styrofoam-- it will outlive us a millionfold. And unless the model railroader scratchbuilds everything out of scraps obtained from elsewhere--and I'm not even sure about that scenario-- it must all be transported to the hobbyist; sometimes great distances. This requires fuel and results in greenhouse gases, whether it be a locomotive, freight car, structure kit, lumber for construction, blue or pink foam (horrors!!!!!) or even build it yourself turnout kits. All for an activity that is completely unnecessary. How dare we. Need a hobby to relieve stress? Take a walk! Exercise relieves stress. Donate the money you don't squander so selfishly on little choo choos to the charity of your choice, resulting in a Double Victory for Humanity. In fact, we shouldn't even be discussing this, or entitling ourselves to this forum, since it wastes energy and is a suboptimal use of time much better deployed in Making the World Better. OK, everybody line up behind me to give up N Scale... Right? I thought not.
Well, we've got to complain about something, right?! btw: George, this post is using 100% recycled electrons, so I'm going to stick my head in the sand and pretend it is still PC to participate in at least one aspect of model railroadiing. My layout uses a fraction of the energy of a plasma television, and by buying only "good" trains, none of them will ever wind up in a landfill. I'll just resell them to others to enjoy. Consider the Lionel standard gauge offerings of the early 1900's; has any metal been in use for so long??? If anyone has any to "recycle," PM me and I'll tell you where to send them without adversly affecting our landfills. :tb-biggrin:
If you look at MT's website you will see lots of undecs available. And I for one think the packaging of the runner packs is classy (I own 4 and have more coming). I don't feel I am paying a premium for the box and doubt if our price would be any less without it.
I wonder if Joe D. lies awake at night trying to think up ways to aggravate model railroaders. Reading the post about excess packaging (and tossing in the current PC topic of being good for the planet) and the one about pizza-cutters, one would come to the conclusion he is succeeding. And the gripe about no undecs.......hoo boy. Personally, I don't buy that many M-T cars since they generally don't have a lot of what I'm looking for. IMO, Intermountain puts out awesome cars with the same quality of M-T and at a lower price. And I sure don't pay full retail price for either brand (or any other brand, for that matter). I can find more stressful things in life without going mental on packaging or wheelsets. This thread is really not going anywhere meaningful.
I'd like to thank Joe for the free boxes I received with my two sets. That's right, the boxes are free. They are a GIFT from M.T. The price would be the same without the boxes. There. Everyone feel better now? If you're really concerned about a tree, send the boxes back for recycling instead of throwing them in the trash or storing them in the attic for eternity. It's all in your outlook on life.
As long as MTL keep bringing out regular releases and variety of runner packs at a reasonable price who cares what they're packaged in? Now that huge box my Athearn Challenger came in, there's a waste of space, or the Walthers 0-8-0 packaging that the engine won't fit back in when you screw on the tender.
