OK, I've not gone to many train shows until recently, but I'm constantly disappointed in the merchandise available. I went to the Del Mar show earlier this month and the Anaheim show Yesterday and while I got some good deals at both, it took a lot of looking. Why would I pay a $7 entrance fee and possibly parking costs to buy new in box product that's the same as I can get 1:At my LHS or 2:Online or 3:From Walthers direct Probably all at the same price? Sure, that 15% discount is nice, but again, minimum $7 entrance fee kinda negates that. I mean, I can see a shop like Wig-Wag which specializes in N-scale and brings essentially the entire store with AND he prepares orders for people to pick up. It's like a mobile LHS and that's cool, but for the average vendor, it's just ridiculous. I "shop" at the train show to pick up 1: unique custom items 2: items that need a little love/Used 3: discontinued or old items. 4: good deals on items that perhaps aren't moving well or are overstocked. (N scale LL GP 20s a few years ago for example) Now to be sure, The Del Mar and Anaheim shows had a fairly good selection of old Athearn Blue Box and even Yellow box kits....at a ridiculous prices. I'm sorry, it's not a craftsman kit here, I'm not gonna pay you like it's new in box. And come on, Who are you kidding with those prices on old Tyco junk? The Lionel/AF Toy train guys have collectable stuff, 30 year old Tyco HO should be pennies a car. I managed at this last show to find 2 mantua Pacifics that the seller gave me for $30 total. That's the kind of deal I expected not row after row of the same currently available everywhere equipment. How do these people sell anything? Oh, and those Mantuas? I and the seller both expected them not to run at all, but I put them on the layout and they both run like Champs. They're loud and like the fine control I'd like, but they run which is just awesome.
YoHo, 10-4 on your opinion. The shows that I enjoy the most are those where a few vendors have merchandise that they bought at estate sales. Sadly, I haven't seen any shows within 150 miles since Katrina, and most had stopped coming before then. I guess the Gulf State region just isn't the high volume market that vendors feel they need to make their trip worthwhile......~-(
Some of the shows here are like you have said. High priced. After parking and admission any discount you might get is gone. The main reason I go to a show is to view the layouts there and admire the handiwork involved. Swapmeets are my venue for buying anything other than through a shop. The LHS is 70 miles away so it is about $25 for gas and so on for the trip. I'm a member of the Longview Kelso & Rainier MRRC and we take our portable layout to shows occasionally. Being an exhibitor has the advantage of no admission but still have to pay parking which is usually about $10 per day.
The biggest reason I continue to go to shows is because the "brick and mortar" hobby shops in the DC area have dried up. Very little stock in the stores. There have been other threads discussing the reasons for that. But I go to the shows (like yesterday's Greenberg Show in Chantilly, VA) because I can spend about 2 or 3 hours, picking the through some goodies, and getting stuff I want for my layout/hobby. Its a mode of shopping I cannot do on Ebay or picking through a Walthers Catalog. Back in the late 80's, there were about 6 or 7 well stocked hobby shops in Northern VA alone that carried quite a supply of SCALE model railroading goods. Today, there is not one worth a dang as far as stock goes. The "deals" have fallen off though. I have noticed more dealers less willing to "deal" or "discuss" price. I have no problem w/ that to a point. I respect everyone has to make a living. But its been my experience the "deals" just aren't as plentiful as they used to be.
Yeah, the modular layouts and clubs are the best things about those shows (MR. SP, When I lived in Oregon, Your portable layout was one of my highlights) but down here, I'm spoiled by easy access to great layouts One thing that often disappoints me too is the lack in quantity of layouts. Or, the same people bring the same modules to every show. And if I see that Circus train display ONE MORE TIME!!!!! (Again, I'm spoiled, Grew up in Chicago, the Museum of Science and Industry has a much better Circus display then that and the model railroad too.) I've had good luck at the San Diego Model Railroad Swap meet And I went to one up in Bakersfield that was really good, but that's a lot of gas. As for estate sales, even better then that is when a Lionel/Tinplate guy is forced to get the HO stuff from the estate. Those guys offload scale stuff for cheap. There's a guy in San Diego that does a big sale couple times a year out of his mobile home. I have yet to go, but I'm intrigued.
I like to see things in person too, but (and maybe this makes me a bad person) I won't buy from the show unless it's a good price. Still, if you are using it as a local hobby shop, then that may work for you, but still, unless everyone is doing that (which is certainly not the case in SoCal) I don't see how the economies work out for any of the dealers. Again excluding a place like Wig-Wag (who I once again didn't say hi too, because his awesome booth was packed with customers)
You are missing one thing about these train shows. The shows are somewhat for the regular modeler, but are also aimed at the person who doesn't know where every hobby shop is that is within 50 miles of their home. People who really only think about model trains when the trains are going around in the circle under the tree. Yes, you have to pay to park and get in. But these shows are a commercial venture. They are put on to make money. For the events company and the vendor inside the show. Try looking around for club swap meets. The swap meets are where you get the BARGAINS! We have 2 every year here in LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY. One in the Spring(March 29, 2008), and one in the Fall(no date yet). Both put on by the NMRA, Mid-Central Region, Div #8. We are not looking to make much money, just enough to cover hall rental and maybe buy some snacks for future Div 8 meetings. We rent the hall(Highland Post American Legion), rent out the sellers tables($20.00 each), and the American Legion people have a concession stand for GOOD/CHEAP eats. I'm thinking last Fall the cost to get in was $5.00 adults, kids under 12 FREE with paid Adult. BOY/GIRL SCOUTS/ARMED FORCES FREE when in uniform. No parking costs. I always get a table to sell & trade stuff I don't want or need. At the local Div 8 swap meet you will find several train layouts, commercial vendors, local hobby shops, estate sales, and just general modelers selling items. Many sellers are just getting rid of excess items, return items and overstock. You never know what you will see. I guess I'm a little spoiled, because in the area we have several great swap meets, LOUISVILLE KY, CINCINNATI & DAYTON OH, INDIANAPOLIS IN, NASHVILLE TN all have swap meets. Good for a day trip with your fellow model railroaders to each swap meet.
There are good swap meets here and I've sold stuff at them as well. I've never seen a trainshow advertised anyplace other then railroad press, so how do they pull in the casual people? The Local Hobby Shop (and Southern California has a couple really really good ones) advertise in the Yellow pages as well as the railroad press. Most of the sales I saw were parents buying stuff that their kids had picked out. Fullerton Railroad days is probably the best source for the casual person along with the SDMRRM Swap meets, but both of those have minimal entrance costs and neither has an extensive list of vendors selling new. The Swap meet has some, but it's a swap meet. The Fullerton Railroad days is pretty well railroadiana stuff and Thomas more then scale. Some good layouts go to it though.
I have been to three major shows and several smaller ones. Other than appreciating the workmanship on the layouts that are displayed, the shows have nothing for me to get excited about.
I guess I must live a charmed life..........with rare exception, every train show and swap meet I've attended has provided me with something to buy at a crazy-low price. I've been able to get stuff from coast to coast, and currently I'm blessed to live close to an urban area that has 3 shows from October to January. The only shows that have been a general bust for me was the Great American Train Show, and I'm shutting up on that subject before I go off on a rant. :tb-wink: Is there over-priced junk at these shows? Sure, but I'm not stupid enough to lay out hard-earned coin for it. Are there good bargains? Yes again- it's a matter of looking. For me, such shows like the one in Augusta,ME and Rickreall, OR were one-time shots, and I was fortunate enough to score some good stuff. Each show had its junk and ridiculous prices as well, but that's the same everywhere. They also had some nice displays as well........the N scale BAR caboose was awesome.
One problem with some of those large train shows, are the fees for a dealer to have a table, or more. I know a couple of fellows who seriously traveled those tours. But tired of what it cost them. These expenses would help keep prices up. They could sell thousands of dollars in a day, and barely make enough for gas, a motel and dinner. Myself, I tended to pick and chose, from a few local events every year. I knew who'd probably be there. And how they did their selling. Some shows tend to become rather stagnant. Same sellers, with the same stuff at the same prices. Others have suffered, as the organizers have failed to keep a good mix of sellers. Many have lost most, if not all railroadiana people. And seem to have gone pretty much HO-centric. That cuts off a large portion of the rest of possible attendees. Boxcab E50
Since we don't have train shows down here, I'd be happy to even attend some of the poor shows you guys complain about! Regards Ed .
The problem that i have with most shows is that the dealers come with not enough stuff. Now granted they dont have a lot of room to bring EVERYTHING with them, but at least bring the hard to find trains and/or the popular ones.
The last two Train Shows I went to were a bust. One, I left without anything so was just out the $7 entry and at the other, I only bought some shirts that would have been cheaper if I had ordered them. Was really disappointed at the N scale collection. Both times, the only xdealer there with good deals was one of the LHS's so if I had bought from him, I would have still been out the $7 because I could get the same prices at his store. I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's, I would always walk out of train shows with either some great finds or some great deals. Guess those days are long gone.
It can be due to the availability of space itself. Or, as I'd noted earlier, it can be the cost of that space. I have known dealers who come to shows, with the idea of dumping stuff that's not moving at the store. Which is their right. And can work. If prices are dropped. And it's stuff people might need. However, if not selling at the store, it may not move at the swap. Also, people can see that table of items, and believe it reflects the store stock. Then might decide right there, to not bother dropping by the brick and mortar outlet... We can only hope they'll bring a good mix of offerings. Boxcab E50
We have one show every 3 months down here, Alot of times I don't find anything I need and come home empty handed. Sometimes if you have other interest not just in your predominant scale you will broaden your area of other things to look for and it will fill the void. I go most of the time knowing I probally won't find anything that I can't order over the net,but if I don't go I might just miss something at a good price or something I missed when they were produced and always wanted one. you never know!. If a show is within an hour round trip drive, it is worth it. Hey it's a model RR event enjoy it! others live in areas that never see a show.
I like to take the approach of "a bad train show is better than a good day at work", but I'll admit that lately train shows have been a little disappointing overall. OKC, which is the standard by which shows are judged for me, is still outstanding and if I could only pick one show it would be a tough choice between driving 20 minutes to one of the 3 good local shows we have versus the three hour drive to OKC. But even OKC seemed a little lacking this year for some reason....still a great show but didn't "shine" which probably had more to do with things I was looking for than anything. I really enjoyed the WGH show this past year in Fort Worth, too. The key element at these shows that is mostly missing at others is a manufacturer presence. I exhibited at the first of the "Big 3" local shows this year and it seemed to be pretty busy, but kinda the same ol' same old stuff. Show 2 was a complete bust...nothing special, no great deals, not a lot of selection at any cost...just very blahhh. The third is coming up in a few weeks and is typically the best of the three. Probably a lot of factors involved: -"Been there done that" syndrome. Same layouts, same dealers, same shtuff. -Not much I need as far as rolling stock and locos, and other items aren't commonly available at shows. -Being tethered to a reservation system means I've probably already ordered anything that would be considered "new" at a show -There seems to be less dealers with "hard to find" items, parts bins, kitbash fodder, etc. - Dealers have the same unpopular road names left from the past ten-twenty years. (As an aside, manufacturers should be forced to do an inventory of at least one entire train show per year somewhere so they see how off-the-mark they get sometimes.) -General downturn in the economy and less disposable income make it a little less fun to buy -the "eBay factor". But like I said, I still go and mostly enjoy it, especially visiting with fellow modelers, checking out the layouts, and the generally fun atmosphere.
I hate it at train shows when: Store owners bring practically their whole inventory to sell at the same prices. When sellers charge tax. When there's a really bad display layout. I never seem to be dissapointed with N scale layouts, but I've seen some really awful HO display layouts. Now I know it's not a prefect indication of the club's talent, but why bring a layout that's always under construction, and where you have old life like engines not running well and pulling un proto typical rolling stock. There's this HO display layout at a New Jersey show, and every time I see it, it's just really dissapointing. I'm absolutely stunned at the N scale layout, then when I get to this HO club layout, it's a big difference. I hate when I go to shows, and everything is the same as last time. I mostly just hate it when I can't find anything to buy that I can afford. Over the years, I've just come to the conclusion that I'd rather be in a hobby shop, because it's more certain, I just love looking at new items, and I hate making bargains. (I never get them to knock off any money)
