Even though I am a Newbie, I know life and collectibles. This board seems stale/ backwards and resisting as far as embracing and posting consistently what a good price should be for HO models or other type RR model collectibles. It seems that certain sellers/ retailers want to NOT embrace Ebay and other auction outlets because it will definitely cut into their margin. This mind set needs to change. Correct me if wrong. I think I am right.
I Think Ebay has actually inflated margins. When I was a teenager, the most expensive Athearn locos were $39 and the Katos/Atlases started there and went up to maybe $80 for the newest tooling. So that's what my mind thinks is right. $20-$40 for a servicable dependible loco. twice that for the super detailed. Any more then that and it ought to be brass, or build the layout for me. Inflation can kiss my butt.
I'm of the understanding eBay is supposed to be an online auction venue. The number of e-tailers that use it as a selling venue ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ises what eBay initially was set up to be. I would recommend they get a website set up and sell direct without hiding behind an eBay store and thus not paying their high fees. That's what the retailers who don't use eBay have done. I guess these retailers figure they are retailing merchandise, not auctioning it. There's a concept and mindset change for you. Oh, and collectible price discussions can be had a several Yahoo! groups specifically for this purpose. If you want to discuss all aspects of prototype trains and modelling of the same, you're more than welcome. Point Available Normal Indicating Lamp Relay.
Bingo-rama. Traingeekboy w/ the "hammer, nail, head" summary. One can sum up almost any market for any good/service this way. The market will drive the price. To affect the price, you would have to affect the market, one consumer at a time. That does happen, but not overnight.
I think that Gary already alluded to the fact that there are other sites more suited to this specific topic. I'm not sure that we see a role for TB in setting, determining or posting collectable prices. But feel free to post about it. Regards Ed .
There is no way to set prices for "collectibles". eBay or not. Model RR, or china, antique autos, or...? For HO, a book was published on brass. In N, there have been numerous publications on Kadee/Micro-Trains. Lionel and others have many books in print. What you see published, and what actually happens in a sale or auction, can be two widely scattered results. Boxcab E50
I don't think I've ever been called "stale/ backwards and resisting" before, but I am getting on a bit I suppose I think you have slightly misunderstood the title above this (Inspection Pit) forum - it's "Model Railroading Forums" and as such most of the contributors are modelers as in model railroad build/operate/play/paint/break, not collectors in the purer sense. For prices the general advice given to those who ask here is check what stuff is being sold for by a few of the internet retailers and maybe then have a look in ebay. For second hand stuff ebay is the obvious place, but price is then down to the vagaries of an auction plus depth of your pocket (and/or gullibility ). And a lot of TB members simply won't use ebay - period. So if you are thinking we have some influence over retailers/sellers beyond our normal consumer choice of 'spend it somewhere else', you are actually wrong I'm afraid.
There are organizations that focus on the collectability (is that a word?) of trains, one of which is the Train Collectors Association (TCA) at TCA - Train Collectors Association Web Gateway - Toy Trains I often find it hard to find the true value of HO stuff, especially on ebay, because the price it sells for often varies based on which roadname it is in. For example, I model Santa Fe and have noticed a big difference in price between the same model in Santa Fe and Conrail. Is this because less of them are made? I dont think so. Is this because there are more Santa Fe modellers? could be. I've also noticed that prices on ebay go up in the holiday season due to people panicing to find gifts for others at the last minute. Right now is a good time to sell on ebay, but not really a good time to buy. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.
Somehow, I have that feeling that "collectables" and "eBay" might not have that much in common, particularly if you're talking about something in brass, which would make more "collectable" sense. I have purchased things off of eBay in the past and have been lucky enough to have found some very good items. None of it however, was brass. The brass I purchased came from a "hands on" source, friends, estate sales, etc. Remember too, that you as a bidder, hold the power of purchase in your hands. If you don't want to pay the asking price, let it go. I've learned that with patience, what you want will eventually swing back around for you.
I'm not really interested in discussing prices. I can figure out prices and develop my own opinion of when I'm getting bent over without needing to talk about it. If I think something is too high, I'll a.) not pay the asking price and just do without it, b.) save up for it, or c.) find it used or discounted. The stuff I need help with is layout design, construction, weathering, equipment maintenance, operations and the sundry other things associated with model railroading.
Not being a collector, I couldn't care less about some artificially-set price, if I can get it cheaper, great. If the price is too high, I pass. I'm not in the hobby to collect model trains per se (although, in a sense, it's part of what we do) more than I am to run them. I know there are such folks out there who collect trains, and I say more power to them. Call me a contrarian, stick-in-the-mud, or whatever- I call myself a model railroader. As for the "Stale-backwards" remark, I shower every day and keep an eye on the future while living in the present, thanks.....:tb-wink:
Hmmm...not sure I understand your post? You want a list of collectable train prices? As for EBay I have a standard set of rules: Look/ask here if anyone has what I want for sale. If not then look at LHS online. If the price is too high, or they don't have it, I go to the Bay. Frankly living here in the stix I have no other choice. I don't collect trains but buy what I need when I can get it. I may be stale and backwards my friend, but I embrace EBay as a necessary tool of where I live J
To be blunt and to the point re the original post, other than for brass there is absolutely no recognized "collectibles" market in HO. N-gauge has a limited one and there is, of course, Lionel and Flyer, but this has never been true of HO, although several attempts have been initiated such by various manufacturers over the years (like Mantua), only to fail. Thus, there can be no set or universally recognized pricing on other than brass HO models and in recent years even their prices have fluctuated dramatically and no published "price guide" is worth much today. For everything else in the way of out-of-production items, the market pice is determined by what a given individual is willing to pay for that item on a given day, nothing more. Thus, on eBay the prices of older items can vary enormously from one sale to the next, dependending on who happens to be on-line that day and how eager they are to buy. NYW&B
ok, now I see what you mean. Perhaps there is no collectors market because folks don't see non-brass as a collectable item? I know that there are "special" sets made in On30 that really are specifically for collectors (the Thomas Kinkade series like the Christmas train, Fireman train, McDonalds etc.) and I think I have seen this sort of thing in HO as well. I suspect that the problem with non-brass and non-special sets is that folks buy them to run on a layout and by the time they might be considered a "collectable" item they are pretty well worn out or the technology has moved so far beyond them that they could really only be used as static models. For instance I have some "G" gauge stuff...really nice, but it is so old that the technology no longer supports it. They make great static models or maybe something for under the tree once a year. So then the question becomes, what is something like that worth? Limited run items are always worth more but who knows what was a limited run? Back in the 70s when HO was in its infancy everything was really sort of a limited run. Are those models worth more than a modern Atearn model? I really can't say. Maybe it would be a good suggestion to the TB administrators that there be a special forum set up for collectors in all scales? I for one would like to read, if not participate, in such forum discussions. J
Actually there is a fair sized N scale collecting market. Outside of KD/MT, there are collectors of Aurora, Lone Star, Con-Cor, and more. Has been so, for some time. A collectors guide was published 25 years ago. But as that was when N scale experienced explosive growth, it was quickly outdated. Nobody has attemped another since then, as it's impossible to catalog all that can be accumulated. In HO, for example, there are serious collectors of the older Athearn Blue Box kits. I've bumped into them at various hobby shops. Watched them scoop up a whole pile of kits. Boxcab E50
As PT Barnum would say...a fool is born every second... Collecting HO trains is like collecting tulips in Holland....It might have a momentary value now to a couple people, and it may even maintain value with couple others due to the branding on the set (john Deere) but then the reason for it being collectible has nothing to do with "ho trains." I collect for running, chopping, and projects. Ebay is my source. We may be backwards here in the inspection kit because we still open our stuff, hack it up, and post the articles here and here and everywhere else. It's just the way we like it! A GOOD price for an HO model is NO MORE THEN YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT! notice most of us Do not shell out any more hen we possibly can either - we're ruthlessly Cutthroat!!We may not be embracing someone else's pyramid, but I call that SMART BUSINESS!
Hey Benny- What are you building lately? Seems as though it's been a while since last seeing a few photos? Boxcab E50
Yes, I know!! - I've een spending most of my time building this boy-girl relationship I have right now and that's really Great!! I did post a layout update in the HO scale forum, At this point I have finished the plasterwork in the corner save for a small patch of the backside of the berm line. Save that, I ahven't been able to get down and make stuff as of lte, its mainly stocking up parts when I see them for the projects, and working on the layout. I figure that once hte lyout is more finished, I will ba ble to clean out about 50% of all my scenery materials [unused foam, etc] and then reorganized my desk so that I can build motive power/rolling stock/buildings on a need to order system. That is, what I am building will directly correlate to what I need to put on the layout next. I will also have a place to dispaly/park locomotives and rolling stock so I will be able to do something with the models once I get them built. The old way, I built and then put it all back in the box...groan!!!
stale/ backwards and resisting I have been called worse. Even a curmudgeon. This site is not a price list for collectible items. The price is whatever the market will bear and what someone is willing to bid.
