WPG RR - Back in the Game

Hello everyone, and Dave H too

I am getting started again with a new layout in N scale and think that this time it needs to be modular and done with the LDE idea in mind.

My last layout was medium sized but sadly I didn't think ahead and make it portable or the least able to break it down for a major move

So hoping to get some ideas and directions on the whole modular methodology and practice.

I am using a CAD program to design with, Empire Express for the Mac.

I am wanting a large part to be switching with interchange between 2 class 1's, my RR is a shortline.

So hope to start posting ideas and get some feedback

Thanks!

 

Hey Dave!!!

I will follow the WPG idea based in Central Illinois, but I think this time I will try and track down old rail lines and try to pattern somewhat after the path they took (DPJ will be required).

Currently I am in an apartment, but have plans to purchase a home (1-2 yrs) so I think the module idea is best, room to grow, and not restrict myself.

I will want to connect to the PPU/TZPR depending on the era

I think I first need to pin down the geographic locations, see if there is any old lines I can view via Google Earth or at least get my hands on some old track plans, and then start mapping out the whole line, and choose those elements that appeal to me, though I know I will want some freelance industries;

Gluten Plant (A MUST)
Coal Generating Power Plant
Transload Facility (Intermodal/Auto/Lumber)

The era will of course be modern and I plan on using carcards, as well as the Virtual Interchange Group.

I plan on going slow, as this is the layout to keep and detail to the limit

For operating withdraw symptoms, I will have to take advantage of a certain N scale layout in the woods, and that extra large scale HO layout in pumpkin town...

So yes, I will be posting my thoughts and plans as I get them together. I handle criticism well and look forward to all the help.

Thanks!!

 

Start of Ideas

What I want is some way to locate old abandoned lines or trails that used to be an RR or even an operating RR. The idea here is to go from eastern IL or western IN to western IL. I would like to connect with NS and CSX and UP on the east end and BNSF and UP and possibly CN/KCS on the west end. I want to have a bridge route idea, for coal and intermodal/auto and general merchandise. I also want to make sure I tap into Peoria IL for connection with PPU/TZPR and TPW. The holder of the main share of WPG RR is TP&W and maybe PPU/TZPR.

So any leads via Google maps or even (heaven forbid) rail to trail sites/maps.

(This is the location premise)

 

David Jordan Response

Sent by DPJ

Keep in mind that UP is a western carrier so it wouldn't hand off any "bridge traffic" on its east (Villa Grove Sub) end.

The best way to determine an actual abandoned rail route for a prototype would be to look at Steam Powered Videos' Great Lakes West railroad maps. It shows which ones are abandonded and active. There are some mistakes but overall, the maps are an excellent tool to have.

If you want to base your railroad on an actual east-west line then I'd consider the IC's Havana District, which ran between Havana and Champaign. Portions of it are still in place (a couple miles on the east side of Clinton to serve a plastics company) and the Champaign - Seymour Branch to serve grain elevators at Seymour and Bondville and some industries on the west side of Champaign - Plastipak Packaging, Prairie Material, Hundman Lumber, ACH Foods, Kraft Foods and Alloy Engineering & Casting.

You could start with the idea that this line was extended west across the Illinois River at Havana to a connection with the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy at Quincy. A connection with Chicago & North Western's Southern Illinois Division would exist at Luther (just east of Mason City). The latter might be of interest because the C&NW would have been constructed in 1912-1913 so a grade separated crossing or tower-protected at-grade crossing would have had to be chosen.

To ensure connections to multipe railroads, you could say the Vandalia RR (or a predecessor) granted you trackage rights on the Peoria Secondary (say, in exchange for funding the line's upkeep) between Beason and the NKP connection at Farmdale (hence trackage rights on the NKP into East Peoria to reach the P&PU connection. A connection with, and part ownership by, the TP&W would give you a good connection to the Santa Fe. Beason could also serve as a connection to the PRR, one of the northeast's big railroads.

On the east, you'd have a connection with the IC, NYC (P&E) and WAB at Champaign. the NYC connection would be your primary eastern outlet, though the partnership with the PRR is good as well. You could say that your railroad was extended to a connection with the Milwaukee Road somewhere around Danville, or perhaps the threat of construction "persuaded" the NYC to grant you trackage rights between Champaign and Pande (the at-grade crossing of the MILW and NYC east of Danville).

Fast forward to 2007, assuming your entire line and trackage rights are in place, then you've got the following:

MAINLINE (owned) Quincy to Danville. At Quincy, you have your BNSF connection, and because of the BNSF merger, you also have a connection with UP (inherited from SP) at Quincy. You have rights to run into BNSF's West Quincy (MO) Yard. Connection at Danville with CSXT and NS.

BRANCH LINES: Your Peoria Branch was purchased in 1976 (when Illinois Terminal actually acquired it) to preserve access to the Peoria Gateway and your TP&W connection. You also purchased from Beason to Decatur to connect with the B&O (via terminal trackage rights in Decatur on the ICG). You'll have to decide how Santa Fe's full ownership of the TP&W from 1979 to 1989 affected the line.

Bridge Route Status. Railroads aren't built to be bridge routes; they're built to serve markets. In Central Illinois, those would be primarily agricultural. Your line's bridge route status would have realistically developed because of the CB&Q connection at Quincy and the eastern road connections at Beason (PRR) and Champaign (NYC). Secondary connections could have developed with the C&EI at Danville. By the early 20th century, shippers would have found your railroad to be ideal in bypassing congestion at Chicago so a number of them, especially those located on the CB&Q in Kansas City and St. Joseph, Missouri, and possibly in Omaha, Lincoln and Denver, preferred a CB&Q-WPGRR-NYC routing across Central Illinois. Typical eastbound traffic would be livestock, perishables, meat, forest products (originating on the GN and NP) and agricultural products such as flour, grain and processor products. Westbound, NYC might hand off autos, steel, carload coal and othe rmanufactured products. If the WPG handles any transcontinental traffic then some California-bound auto parts would be possible traffic.

Other "bridge routings" could involve AT&SF-TP&W-WPGRR-NYC routings. Also, CRI&P-WPGRR-NYC/PRR would contribute some traffic.

Your WPGRR's status as a bridge route could have been eliminated by deregulation after 1980, but it could have survived because of the following:

Shippers on the BN preffered the WPGRR across Illinois to connect with the B&O at Decatur (new connection from 1976), Conrail at Champaign (Urbana Yard actually) and perhaps the L&N at Danville (though BN had a direct connection to the L&N in southern Illinois). Santa Fe shippers still preferred to route traffic AT&SF-TP&W-WPGRR-Conrail. Conrail closed numerous gateways in 1981 (such as with TP&W) so realistically, your Conrail connection might have been cut off. The only difference is that Champaign-Urbana would have been your only physical connection with Conrail, so big blue wouldn't have been able to cut off all traffic.

In 2007, you could be bridging transcontinental traffic between BNSF/UP at Quincy and NS/CSXT at Danville. The Peoria Branch provides a connection to BNSF and UP but with a different traffic flow. However, a connection with IAIS and KJRY is growing in importance. TZPR provides industrial traffic and a market for WPGRR-served grain shippers. Service to Decatur would be redundant since B&O is now part of CSXT and your Danville line duplicates this connection. Some local traffic might keep the Beason - Decatur line viable.

As far as primary local traffic, you'll want grain elevators, fertilizer dealers, processors (flour mill, gluten plant, etc. or something more typical of Central Illinois - corn and soybean processors), barge loadouts (you could control one at Havana) and a concentration of heavy industry at West Presence (if that's your HQ and primary station). Coal-fired power plants, chemical, plastics and steel industry presence would add good a good traffic base. Maybe even an auto assembly plant. If a Japanese automaker, imported parts would justify an intermodal terminal. Farmers and processors could ship grain and grain products in containers as backhaul traffic.

Thanks DPJ!

 

amazing

dave H/david T. WOW

save for 5 years in college (st. louis) I've spent my entire life in central illinois. you guys KILL me with your incredible knowledge of all RR's in the peoria area. not to draw comparisons, but you guys remind me of...... Jerry Reinmann of TP&W fame. having lived near Eureka (goodfield), Jerry and I had many a great conversation about the tip-up. i actually grew up near bartonville, only moved to woodford county in the 90's. I'm now back in bartonville, and really enjoy your blogs about the river city and it's colorful history railwise. Peoria Rails (Yahoo group) is a great source of information. DPJ is a driving force, I'll grant you that...

thanks for igniting a fire in my modeling ideas!!

Ed Dillard