Just curious- Could Atlas gear the engine so as to limit the top speed? Or is there a factor that prevents this possibility? Boxcab E50
I think they did that with the V01000. Unfortunately, some people still insisted on running them at 60 scale MPH and then complained about the noise.
Not having seen the inside of one much less even a parts diagram I cannot say so on that. There are several manufacturers that have managed to limit the speed of their respective locos so that it keeps more within scale limits. Several have only managed a scale 80 MPH at full throttle which has also meant nice slow speed action when switching and no scale 140 MPH running around the track. Great if you are running the Acela but not worth a dang if you are running an RS-1. Limiting the power to the motor is another way and may be the easiest. I have another project that I've been waiting to jump into which involves using a 3 volt motor to power the mechanism so there I'll be limiting the power from the throttle. Same electronics used there may work for the Shay to. Have to talk to my electricity Guru though to see.
Mark: I'll answer your question using a different scale as an example. In 1962, I bought a brass HO United Two Truck Shay. It was $40 at the time, which by the way in 1962 was "heavy money". I was fascinated with the gears and all gears worked on that model which I will show you in this post. This Shay couldn't go fast at all. The speed was regulated even if you turned up the throttle. That entire mechanism couldn't take a full throttle mentality. If you properly research the Shay, one would quickly realize that 10-12 miles/hour is the top speed that the loco could travel. Remember, it was run in mountainous terrain with very sharp radii and turns. In the mid 1960's, I saw one Shay in action in either New Hampshire or Vermont. The top speed on that loco was about 7-8 mph. The main problem with most modelers, is that they want to run all their loco's at top speed. That's utterly ridiculous. Sometimes a little research helps determine what speed a loco should be run. The other is common sense. If you look carefully at the Atlas Shay gear structure, you'll notice that it wouldn't take much for this loco to freeze up if it were run at high speeds. Maybe Atlas should put a warning on the jewel case. If they put the warning in the diagram sheet, 99% of the time it wouldn't be read anyways. I for one don't run my loco's at fast speeds. That's possibly due to the nature of the JJJ&E, which is all graded, and I don't need speeding accidents, when the loco's are 7 1/2"above the benchwork. Mark: I know that you are very conscientious about following directions and digesting information that would help you. Steam loco's require a constant vigilance. So many things can and do go wrong from one operating session to the next. You aren't alone in this respect. Every time I run all steam on the JJJ&E, I have new challenges to conquer. Steam isn't a easy fix. Those folks that just run diesels have little comprehension how difficult it is to maintain and run a steam fleet especially in N scale. Over time, you develop the ability to "fix" steam problems as they occur. I know I did. It's just another learning process that unfortunately takes time and patience. Here are two photo's of the United Brass HO two truck Shay. The loco was run about three months ago right away after it was stored for 15 years. It just needed some lubrication. This loco makes the same noise as the Atlas Shay. They recreated the motor sound very convincingly. The entire gear structure works on this Shay. Stay cool and run steam......
as I posted on page 2 of this thread, I returned my Shay to Atlas because of pickup problems. actually got around to sending it on the 14th, so it took two weeks to get back to my trainshed.... I cannot tell you how pleased I am with the Shay I got back from the Swiss Watchmakers at Atlas!!!!! runs perfectly, like their BEST dieseasel switchers. to give you an idea, it takes ALMOST 10 Seconds to go from the start of a standard 6" track section to the start of the next!!! the speed is now just like the prototype, and really just like my Bachman On30 Shay.... now if I could just get a sound decoder and speaker in the little Atlas beauty like the On30 Shay!!! Michael P.S. generally not that well disposed to Atlas, but now a true believer!!!! I urge you to return your Shays if you are having ANY problems with them! [ 29. January 2005, 04:38: Message edited by: jmhewitt ]
I got mine today and am just as pleased as punch, even though it won't negotiate the sharp curves on my layout. It will serve as the switcher, though. This allows an extra car on the siding is resides on when not in use compared to an MDC 2-8-0, the current switcher. The dealer did test run it for me. Believe PSG1790 got his from the same dealer.
Gregg: Where did you get your Shay. I just picked up a fourth one. So that makes four Shays from three dealers. I pre-ordered the first two and then picked up two others at some great prices. I might try for another two. They are beautiful steamers and fit perfectly on the graded layout of the JJJ&E. And to top it off, the decoder installation in the Shay was a breeze. Stay cool and run steam with DCC or DC; just have fun...
This is really encouraging. Atlas has had mine for two weeks as of today for a disconnected u-joint. It sounds like they are taking care of business. I still believe customer service is alive and well. Really looking forward to watching this little rascal crawl around the layout.
A true modeler would only run a unit no faster than the prototype. I, like most, run my trains much too fast at times -- maybe we should switch to slot cars. I think Atlas is to be commended for making a Shay available. Not only should they print a warning about maximum speed on the package , they should have each purchaser sign an affidavit stating that they would not exceed this speed. Al
I too posted about a problem with my shay. It threw a push rod on the center cylinder. Well, Atlas called me yesterday to tell me that it was repaired and on the way back to me. I just mailed it to them on 1/19/05. That's pretty good service, if you ask me. Thanks Atlas.
Alhoop- You are assuming a bit too much. I do not know what a "true modeler" is, but I certainly do not fit into your definition. If the train should be limited to running at 5-10 SMPH, Atlas should have put it on the packaging. They did not, either out of ignorance or fear of sales losses resulting from false modelers not purchasing the same.
Fotheringill Nope, don't know MR. Atlas. As a matter of fact Atlas management has really po'd me in the past with a rather smart and aragant attitude. But they do make nice stuff, so I continue to buy. They called me because I had used two empty jewel cases as packing to keep the shay from further damage in case the USPS decided to play football with the package. The man that did the repair work on the shay thought something had been misplaced and wanted to make sure they hadn't lost anything. Nice of them to check.
I'm still waiting for my Undec. I expect the loco will not hold up to the same level of abuse that has been heaped upon my Thomas the Tank Engine, but I expect it will be almost as popular with our NTrak guests. (In fact, I am expecting a very delicate locomotive, which must be handled with utmost care....I will probably haul logs on the Green Line where it is less likely to be handled, and unlikely to be T-boned by someone's bullet train that derails at Warp.) I don't expect my shay to be as ruggedly construced as my MDC 2-8-0s, but I do expect it to be small and rate high on the "cuteness factor" like the "bumble bee" does. I don't expect my shay to pull as well as my Bachmann 2-8-0, but I expect it to run as smooth and quiet. I don't expect my shay to be as bulletproof on electrical pick up as my typical Atlas and Life Like B-trucked diesels, but I expect it to be more reliable than my Atlas Mogul in that regard, or I will return it for a refund. I expect the Shay to be an impractical novelty, and that is why I only ordered one. Those of you who have had yours for a while can comment if you like, but that's what I expect.
LT: The Shay is a bit noisier than you would expect. It simulates the real loco to a degree. It runs like a jewel and looks great on the layout. Here is the way the Shay looks after adding Z scale #905 couplers. I also installed decoders in these beauties. Stay cool and run steam...
F'gill Here you are: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=78177&item=5952484254&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW This one supposedly runs 55-60 scale mph. Al
Thanks, PSG1790! Looks like I need to lay in a stash of those #905's. On Shay Speed? Yes they were slow, particularly when pushing a load uphill. Coming down could be something else. We rode the Cass up to Bald Knob. A single Shay pushed a bunch of open flats. I don't recall any closed cars. The flats had railings, but I don't remember any seats. I wouldn't have sat down anyway. coming back down through the switchbacks, the short, lightly loaded train slipped down. I don't mean we fell like a rock, but we accelerated quickly, and we got to going pretty good. Way more than the 10-15 mph I always considered to be top end for a Shay. The brake crew were jumping from car to car checking brakes. Our car was sliding. They may have all been sliding. The Shay was downhill from us, running in reverse. As she backed around a curve, I got a good look at the rods and crank, flailing like fury. As suddenly as it started, our "slide" was over, and the crew was then running from car to car releasing the sliders that hadn't let go. Our car was still locked up. Man, that thing took off with the wheels sliding though! We may have had too much locomotive for that short train, or not enough cars to hold it back, if you want to think of it that way.
I posted a "Where's the undec Shays" on the Atlas board last week as i have two on order. I was not censored or warned in any way. In fact, Mr. Graf responded and said something like 'We're holding the undecs and the Sugar (something or other) back until we review the problems encountered with the first batch. We want to see if there are real problems or just normal manufacturing variances." Again, I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it. So, he admitted that there are some issues and that they are looking into it. Sounded good to me. There have been other discussions about them, and I haven't heard anyone saying that they've been warned or censored.
LT: I've used the Z scale #905's on many loco's and some selective rolling stock. When you install the #905 coupler in the Shay, you can't slide it back to far or else it'll interfere with the trucks. Check the clearance before you cement it in place. You can't screw it in. Stay cool and run steam .....
