Define Model... I'm not aware of any "Model" per say ever being done but there is allot of views, etc. of the Lion out there plus the full scale replica itself. I did find this one on the 'Net the other day as well.
I think it would be cool if there was HO scale model (probley tought to get DCC in it LOL).Id attempt to scratchbuitl one in brass if I had dimentions,Theres not much to it ,a challenger is a bit more complexed (future project)
FYI This site has an interesting article on the Stourbridge Lion and the America! http://www.newvispub.com/portal/articles/info?id=0. Scroll down to the "Unravelling the myth" article on the bottom. Also some interesting pix of the D & H.
Im posting some more of my omi pa4(my wife took some really great shots of it,way better that I did lol)
PA's and stuff Nice model Dan. The only modeling related project I accomplished last weekend was "yet another" display case. This one has some miscellaneous models inside ...including two Life Like Pa-1's.
Hey Dave,Nice heres ,my display case i built last year,the bottom has a track that is DCC ready,i can light up/hear any loco on it,me n my wife like rustic stuff,this was made out of rough cut lumber plained down,added black velvet.
Display cases and dcc Super display case Dan! I have not taken the plunge into DCC yet....but I know it's inevitable. It must be cool to be able to let your loco's "idle" in the case. Dave
Dan, I have one of those Overland plated PA-4s too. Any words of advice on tackling painting on the blue and decaling vis-a-vis the plating? For instance, did you clear-coat the engine before painting on the blue or did you just paint it right on the plated brass? The job you did is impressive :thumbs_up: and I would like to do an equally impressive job and not screw this one up. Rick
Hey Rick i painted with scalecoat 1 paint rite on the plating.1st I makred out where the paint would be being applyed with maskin tape,took a greem 3m scotch brite and rubbed till that was scuffed(be careful not to do to hard/plating is very thin/dont go thru)(a friend of mine does autobody this was his directions on this model) then air brushed the blue- after an hour then set in oven for 10 min at 175 took out to cool.Next day then re masked for the yellow lines painted and did 30 min at 175 in oven,take your time in painting this i did about 3 days. I had installed a athearn Genisis motor(orig mtr was noisey) -is yours noisey? Dan
Dan, Thanks for the quick response. Yes, mine is noisey also. Holy Carp, those are painted-on stripes?!!! mg: You're definitely in the minority on that. Most people decal. I've seen your striping method used before, but in reverse. IOW, the yellow was painted on first and then flexible striping tape was used to deliniate the yellow stripe and the blue was painted over that. I've got to get up the guts to try that (especially on a brass model). :unsure8ao: How did you mask to get the narrow blue line between the yellow and the silver to line up so perfectly?:hmm4er: One of my first custom paint projects was a paint-over of an Athearn dummy Santa-Fe PA applying the blue over the red just like the D&H did. Only problem was I painted the blue all the way out to where it meets the silver. The Microscale decals being thin forced me to double-up on them to get an opaque yellow. Came out nice, but was a lot of work. OTOH, I've found it easier to paint the blue on and then mask for the grey on hood units in lightning stripe. It gives a nice light color for those translucent Microscale decals to sit on if you line the blue edge up just right on the shell.:thumbs_up: Best regards, Rick
Hey my bad,I only painted the smaller yellow line(had to go back and check my work)I did use micro scale decal but the complete curved decal dont line up with the omi body panels so I did alot of cutting lining,cutting,etc. If you want ill email you more pics,it tells the tale very well.
Hey Guys iv been playing around with an idea-here goes, I picked up some Dash9s or c44-9w on ebay cheep. I always liked this loco(CSX had a ton of them that passed by my place when i lived in albany) If the D&H were still around today they probley would have most likley had these as well(considering there history with ALCo/GE)so i was thinking of painting up in some D&H colors-so my question is would you do the lighting n thunder scheme or the PA warbonet ?I got a ton of details west parts for this loco
I would say Lighting stripe since the PA schema was based soley on the SF history of the engine I believe. :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:
PA Postlude (War Bonnet) As the creator of a long line of steam locomotives, including the Big Boy, it wasn't surprising that in 1946 the American Locomotive Company Alco) should unveil a new 2000hp. passenger unit of classic proportions - the PA. These great machines singly, but mostly in pairs of cab units (in the case of Santa Fe, long impressive strings of PA and PB units in a silver line punctuated by massive red noses), handled the best of the name trains in the carriage trade markets. Their names were legend: Merchants Limited, 20th Century Limited, Broadway Limited, Super Chief, Sunset Limited, and even that train renowned in song, the Wabash Cannonball. For eight years, the Schenectady plant turned out these machines, but only a meager 294 units were built, 247 cabs and 47 boosters. The initial model, the PA/PB1, with a 16 cylinder, 2000hp version of Alco's 244 series diesel engine was offered until 1950, when the horsepower rating was boosted to 2250hp by installing a water cooled turbocharger, and the model designation changed to PA/PB2. The PA/PB3 had some side grille changes when it was offered in 1952, but the horsepower remained the same; the bulk of the these went to Southern Pacific. The SP PA/PB fleet, with its subsidiary Cotton Belt, comprised the largest, while the GM&O had only three. The first to obtain the now-fabled units was the Santa Fe (which had 44 in all); apparently the last to have them is the Delaware & Hudson, which brings us to the point of this journal. All great institutions down through the annals of history - square rigged Clipper ships, the Mississippi River steamers, the nickel beer and the all-men's bars in which it was served, and indeed the steam locomotive itself - seem for some unknown reason to pass into the Great Beyond. Being in the minority among the nation's passenger diesels no doubt marked their breed to be short lived, for as the numbers of trains dwindled, the PAs were in many cases set aside to simplify maintenance programs. Another strike against the Alcos was their single engine per unit. If a failure should occur, the whole unit was disabled, where the competitive EMD units had two prime movers per unit and could carry on with less overall effect on the total power output. The PAs had the characteristic of smoking to varying degrees upon accelerating, due mainly to their exhaust actuated turbochargers, as compared to the mechanically operated Roots blowers on the two-cycle EMD engine. Until the Alco engine revved up sufficiently to provide enough exhaust gas to bring the turbo up to speed, a temporary lack of oxygen caused improper combustion and black smoke. This smoke production varied depending on the state of maintenance of the give unit, but the characteristic, along with the classic proportions and design, earned the name of "Honorary Steam Engine" for the PA. The real quirk of fate occurred in the summer of 1967 when Frederick C. Dumaine, Jr. became president of the D&H. He has held a block of stock for a number of years and succeeded in getting enough votes to become president on August 1, when previous president Hilts stepped down to become Chairman of the National Railway Labor Conference. The "Expo 1967" World's Fair was in progress at the time in Montreal, and Dumaine decided to try garnering some of the travel dollars people would spend to see it. Being a passenger oriented railroader of the old school, having served as a president of the New Haven during some of the stormy years of World War II and after, "Buckie" - as he is affectionately called - decided that if the D&H were to be in the passenger business at all, then it should be in it all the way. He immediately leased two New Haven buffet cars and shortly replaced those with leased C&O dines, one still lettered Per Marquette. This was a complete reversal of the previous management's efforts to discontinue the Laurentian, which resulted on the removal of the dining service for the previous several years. In October he had obtained 12 stainless steel Pullman-Standard built cars from the Rio Grande, made available when the D&RGW discontinued its Royal Gorge route passenger trains. Obtained in the group of cars were two diners, one cafe lounge, four baggage cars and five coaches, so the leased diners were returned to C&O. He hired three attractive waitresses to staff one of the cars, which certainly didn't hurt the looks of things, while some older and most capable dining car personnel were still available for the other. Buckie now had a fairly decent looking train, painted up in bright blue, yellow and grey - the same combination that had been used o the motive power since 1960. The train looked good, but the motive power was, and had been since dieselation in 1950, one or more of the 1600hp Alco road switchers. Theses were reliable enough despite their age, but Buckie wanted a better-looking train, perhaps one like he had seen arriving at South Station, Boston, in the good years before Eastern Airlines shuttle service was initiated. Two of the eight units in passenger service were wrecked near Saratoga Springs in August, so this left the passenger power roster fairly low, as well as old. He therefore sent his motive power people out after some truly "passenger" diesels for the new train. That is where the quirk of fate that will go down in railfan history occurred. At the time, the fall of 1967, the Alco PA was about as plentiful as the whooping crane and those roads that still had any in service were phasing them out at a rapid rate. Only the SP, EL and Santa Fe had any operational units at all. On the other hand, ther were undoubtedly plenty of used EMD units available; even a new dual service unit, such as the EMD SDP45 and GE U28CG that were being promoted at the time, was a possibility. New GE units were considered, with dynamic braking and steam generators, especially considering that, should passengers service be dropped in future, these locomotives could easily move into the growing fleet of second generation hood units on the D&H. At least four would be needed, and at more than a quarter of a million a copy, even "Buckie" couldn't justify that for his new passenger trains. What about all those two engine EMD units which seemed to work out better than the big Alcos on most railroads? Any that were in decent shape were still in use or the price was considered too high for used unit. The Santa Fe had dropped and consolidated several of its trains after the summer schedule changed, and a number of its great fleet of PAs were congregated at Barstow, CA for storage. word got around that ,they would part with some if anyone wanted them, so Master Mechanic Tom Bradley flew out to look them over. They looked good and had been fairly well maintained. After reporting back on his findings, the word went out - get three! It was pointed out the D&H should have a spare unit for various reasons, so a fourth was chosen and arraignments were made to ship them back to the D&H Colonie shops just north of Albany. There were some sound reasons for choosing the Santa Fe Alcos. First, they were available and - at $30,000 each - they were a great buy. Another important factor was their 244 series engine, a piece of hardware the D&H shop men were thoroughly familiar with, having had the 12 cylinder version in service for over 20 years. Spare parts were largely interchangeable as well. Finally, they were indisputably a great looking machine! What more could you ask? By December 16, they had arrived at Colonie where Santa Fe 59, 60, 62 and 66 would become D&H 16 - 19, the logic of which remains a mystery. Perhaps one reason for the choice was to take advantage of the square space provided in the illuminated side number panels - unique to the Santa Fe units only - where just two digits would fit to best advantage. Then, too, with the numeral one involved, space was used to even better advantage - but then why not 10 - 14? These factors are apparently the only thing that can be recalled by those involved in the choice of numbers. Very little work was required to get them running. The engine lube oil was changed and the batteries charged, and the first of the quartet, #62, was cranked up. That great traditional plume of smoke rose above the silver roof to mark the occasion. Some thought was, of course, given to a color scheme; naturally it would be blue and yellow, but in just what portions it would emerge was a matter of question for a time (the other D&H units had blue on the top with grey on the lower areas separated by a yellow line). One major consideration was to take advantage of the large areas of expensive stainless steel - also unique to the Santa Fe units - for good looks and ease of upkeep. It was soon apparent that the only way to do this was to reproduce the "war bonnet" design of the Santa Fe, but in blue and yellow. The V-shaped line in the front replaced the oval "Santa Fe" emblem to carry through a d&H family line that appeared on the other power. With the small "D&H" shield emblem added below the headlights in the center of the "V", it didn't come out too badly at all, aside from being basically a blue "war bonnet". To have come up with anything different would have cut down on the possibility of featuring the stainless steel to advantage. Each of the units in their turn went through first the wash rack where insides and outsides were cleaned, then to the paint booth for the application of silicone based paint, and finally to the inspection ramp where all systems were checked out and tuned up. On Christmas Eve 1967, the 18 was rolled out into light of day for the first time. What a present to put under the Christmas tree of a rail enthusiast! After initial load tests in the yard at Colonie, it was decided that she would take the Laurentian to Montreal on the 26th. All was complete except for the D&H shield on her flank, and item which was not added to all the units until early summer (#17 emerged as the last of the four with these colorful adornments included). All was in readiness on the appointed morning as the bustle of preparatory activity increased in bay 2 of the great shop at Colonie - the dispatch area. Last-minute adjustments were made on the train heat boiler, windshields were washed, drinking water for the crew put on, and much other primping took place. The cab was more than filled for the debut run, including master mechanic Tom Bradley and Shop Superintendent Wm. F. Shepard, when veteran engineer Hank Webber notched the great steed out for her first official trip at 10.00am sharp. She eased out of the shop and ran over to the coach yard where the baggage car, diner and extra coaches were picked up for the trip in reverse down to NYC's now-abandoned (it is now a bank) Union Station in Albany where the connecting through coaches from New York City were added. It was a great day - after 20 years of dieseldon, the D&H finally had an honest-to-goodness streamlined diesel on the point. It was certainly a quirk of fate when, at a time other roads were discarding this cab unit - indeed the PA itself - and going to a half breed of hood and cab unit, aesthetically the D&H had finally achieved near perfection in power. It couldn't have been accomplished in a better way! All went well on the initial run - well fairly well. The 18 took over just like she had made that trip up along wintry Lake Champlain all her life rather than the long, flat, dry miles between Chicago and the Pacific shores. Steam production had always been a weakness in passenger diesels, and it was no different with these units. External hose connections were not correct at Whitehall and Rouses Point on their first run, so excessive time was consumed in filling the tanks at these points. Long use of Southwestern alkali-rich water left its mark on the boilers, with deposits of scale in the coils. Total water capacity was only 1220 gallons per unit, not enough should a delay occur under severe winter conditions. This problem was overcome in subsequent winters by having a chance to rebuild and replace the old coils in the boilers and doubling the units. The two-units combinations were a delight to see winding along the twisting route beside the lake. During the first winter, the 4000 class RS3 boiler equipped units that held reign for years filled in as replacement on runs not able to be covered by only two doubled-up PA power sets. After the purchase of the D&H by N&W Holding Co. Dereco, half brother Erie Lackawanna provided two sets of EMD E8 passenger units in the most recent two winters, and the D&H RS3s were held in reserve. This was an interesting variation (but no comparison to the PA lash-ups) that operated both night and day trains as their turn came up. The PA's were an instant success with the crews. After bouncing up and down at the rear end of a 4-axle RS3 (D&H RS3s ran long hood forward) for years, the up-front ride on long 6-wheel trucks was a definite treat. They rode so smoothly that the crew has to be careful not to allow the line on the ever present telltale recording tape to climb over the 65 mph (sure to earn a not from the office). It must have been hard for the PA itself, after those spirited three digit runs out West. By mid-January 1968 all four units were in service where they would remain as their sisters on the Santa Fe and Southern Pacific fell beneath the cutting torch. If a machine has a spirit, theirs must have been sorrowful, yet proud to still carry on the grand tradition of what is generally regarded as the greatest diesel ever to ride the rails. An old New Haven unit that had been traded in to GE, the 0783, was till in the scrap line at Erie, PA, and arrangements were made in February 1968 to purchase it for the major components it would provide for the now almost-orphaned mini fleet of PA's. The old unit gave up a prime mover and generator, a set of trucks, radiator assemblies, air compressor, a spare steam generator and other miscellaneous parts such as window glass and cab doors unique to this type of unit. The 0783 was obtained for scrap price, about $8000, and it provided the basis for the rebuilding program that would otherwise have been impossible to accomplish and stills keep the four units on the road for the majority of the time. To date, trucks have been changed many times, always allowing two extras to be in the shop for rebuilding. The New Haven diesel engine was rebuilt and was installed in the 16, while 16's prime mover was rebuilt and installed in the 18. Everything considered, the D&H obtained excellent service from 20 year old, second-hand equipment. Obviously, the almost miraculous continuance of daily PA operation proved to be the main topic of conversation wherever fans and modelers met. Entire vacations were devoted to watching them perform, especially as the Amtrak takeover neared. For almost three and a half years, the four prima donnas relentlessly and faithfully rolled off the winding miles between Albany and the Canadian Metropolis. This route in itself provides some of the best scenery in the Northeast, pass as it does the full length of Lake Champlain, practically going under historic Ft Ticonderoga, traveling along man-made rock ledges 100 feet above Wilsboro Bay, and finally crossing the Lachine rapids of the St. Lawrence River on its way to the shadow of Mt Royal - that geographic feature named "Mt Real" by Jaques Cartier which gave the city its name. With the formation of the federally sponsored corporation to operate passenger trains all across the country - first Railpax then Amtrak - the overall route structure was cut down and the Albany - Montreal segment was not proposed for inclusion in the final plan. Various efforts were made to include the D&H route, but nothing had developed by late May. The trains did lose money, although the night train, the Montreal Limited, seemed to have a better financial record than the Laurentian. As the Amtrak takeover date of May 1 neared, enthusiasm for riding and seeing the trains with their now famous motive power rose to a fever pitch. On some weekends, more than 100 photographers could be counted between Albany and Montreal. As quickly as the PA's were introduced to D&H passenger services, they were just as quickly withdrawn on the startup of Amtrak, and by May 2, the PA's were all together again at Colonie shops, for the first time since their arrival in December 1967. 16 and 18 had been named after two of the D&H's senior men, 16 after Marvin A. Davis (Mr. D&H) (Senior Road Foreman) and 18 after George W. Hockaday (Chief Mechanical Engineer). These two locomotives were almost immediately sent to the paint shop for repainting, while 17 and 19 were traded in to GE, who as luck would have it, didn't scrap them immediately. The 16 and 18 were leased to Steam Tours Inc. and ended up being stored at Hagerstown, MD. Through the efforts of the new D&H president, Carl B. "Bruce" Sterzing, all 4 PA's were returned to the D&H by May 1972, and were used hauling business trains and excursions. In 1974, Amtrak restored Albany - Montreal service with the 403b Adirondack, but with D&H equipment. The PA's went to Morrison Knudsen in Boise, Idaho for rebuilding. This was done between July and October 1974, and the four emerged as PA4s, with 12 cylinder Alco 251F engines rated at 2400hp. The PA glory years would last only until March 1 1977, when Amtrak equipped the Adirondack with Turboliners. D&H tried the PA4s in freight work with mixed success (they were geared for 120mph working), then lease to the MBTA to operate out of Boston's South Station on commuter trains. The last revenue run occurred on October 13, 1978 By now, the D&H was having a money crisis, and was selling off 20 percent of its freight diesel fleet to a dealer, for long term lease to Mexico, and the PA's were included in this "job" lot. Suddenly no PA's were left in the USA, although they were still geographically in North America. The final four led a checkered career on Mexico's Pacific Railway. Although given tender loving care by the Alco-wise shop forces at Empalme, Sonora, they gradually succumbed to age and wrecks. Despite several attempts by various parties over almost two decades to return one or more to the U.S. as display items or operating units, none have moved north, although currently there is a move by the Smithsonian Institute to get two of the ex D&H PA's and rebuild them, one as original Santa Fe and the other as D&H. - time will tell if this venture eventuates. Two have survived as museum pieces - 17 even retaining its number - while the other two are hulks at best. (Reprinted by permission from the August 1971 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman magazine. From the collection of Doug Barron. Copyright© Carsten's Publishing Co. © 1971. Paraphrased by Neil C. Hunter).
Where did everybody go? Well, I'm still around....just nothing new to report of late. Plus, I have been busy with spring time outdoor chores. What little modeling I have done lately has been on some old MDC RS-3's. I may sell them when they are done as I have a load of Atlas RS-3's. Speaking of Atlas, they are going to re-release their great U-30-C's in D&H with some new road numbers. I already have 3, so I'm not sure I will spring for any more.
"New" RS-3's I did not want to post these guy's under the "New Purchases" area because these things are not new.....they are just "new for me". I have been working on these two for the past several months, they are old MDC models that I fixed up. I am going to sell them on ebay as I have a load of RS-3's already. But for now....they are working on my basement layout.
Hi there. I just thought I'd drop a couple of photos of my H0 D&H locos on here - Atlas Trainman RS36 and Atlas U23B. Both run superbly on my DC layout. I have a detailing kit for the RS36. [I think it's by Cal Scale, through Bowser models] Must get around to applying it some day. I see Athearn will be producing RS3s soon. Hoping to get my hands on one. It's been a long slow process building up the fleet. Cheers Mike
