Thank you Bill for the great advice about removing the traction tires. I removed mine and both the "hitch" and the stalling are long gone. Like you, I can pull more than enough cars; the original train on the failing Addison Branch of the Rutland had a much smaller consist anyway. I am now very happy with my new 2-6-0; the ability of the front coupler to mate with MT's is an added bonus. I assume that the traction tires raised the rear driver just enough to cause either the forward drivers or the tender trucks to slightly break electrical contact. Perhaps it was like a fulcrum. It demonstrates the incredible tolerances necessary for a successful steam loco in N.
So without traction tire one of these should be able to pull a mixed train of say 6 40' boxcars and a passenger combine up a 1% grade around 14" curves on DC power? Dave
Specific pulling capabilities of any loco especially steam will vary with each user. Stay cool and run steam.....
I don't own one. As for what it may pull, the JJJ&E is entirely graded at 2% with no level track so what a loco can pull on my layout would differ dramatically from loco's operating on level track or a 1% grade. Stay cool and run steam.....
This may not be too helpful, but I can pull at least 8 50', weighted milk cars plus a Model Power heavyweight combine on level track after the tractions tires were removed, or 14 normal freight cars. The curves are relatively broad (20" radius) curves. The loco now creeps through Peco Code 55 Electrofrogs without stalling. It would have never occurred to me to remove the traction tires, so thanks once again to the forum for great advice.
It rates a Kato tender Yup, this one needs an all-wheels-live tender. I swapped out the stock MP tender and switched in a Kato USRA Standard. WHAT AN IMPROVEMENT! It creeps nicely. It pulls fifteen loaded MT gondolas and a caboose (also on MT trucks) at twenty SMPH up a one-per-cent grade with NO slipping. No more stalling. No more hitch in the get-along. In fact, it is positively beautiful to watch as it creeps. It looks allright with the USRA Standard, the tender does not overwhelm it. A traction tyre would also improve the eight-wheeler PROVIDED that it has an all-wheels-live tender, with needlepoint pick up, in the fashion of B-mann or Kato (NOT all-wheels-live with contact wipers). Think about it, Messrs. Tager: an all-wheels live tender on this mogul and you have a WINNER. And yes, I will pay for it.
Phil: What about substituting Kato trucks and wheelsets, or Spectrum trucks and wheelsets on the MP tender. That should do the trick as well. I'm contemplating buying one, but it seems the same old problems exist with this MP loco as well. The ancient wiper system and lack of all wheel pickup on the tender is the same old story of a MP loco. I most certainly gave MP a chance with all the Pacific's, Mikado's and eight wheelers I purchased as well as traction tire installations. Stay cool and run steam......
Bob, if you want to keep the smaller tender and have all wheels live, you would have to use Kato or B-mann trucks and add the metal strips. If you use the Kato USRA Standard tender (or the Bachperssonn, for that matter), what is required is that you solder wires to the metal strips in the Kato tender, then splice them into the wires in the MP locomotive. You must also add a post to the front of the Kato (or Bachmann) tender so that you will have a means of affixing the drawbar to the tender. I would assume that modifying the MP tender as you have described would also work, it just requires more work. what I am describing is strictly for DC operation. I would assume that DCC would require either additional steps or minor variations in the procedure (or both). The Kato (or B-perssonn) tender does give more room for weight and a decoder than does the stock MP. While I would shy from weighting either a Kato or B-mann tender on the eight-wheeler, I do not shy from it on the mogul, as it has a traction tyre. Fifteen loaded fifty foot gondolas on a one-per-cent grade does not seem too far off for the prototype. The purpose of the weight in the tender would be , of course, to improve electrical contact. I have found that when you weight the tender on the Kato mikado, especially with the traction tyre, the stalling problems disappear.
This is just a bit of brain flatulance, but......? Some of you guys have removed the TT from your MP Moguls and seen reasonable results, i.e. better contact, but poorer traction. What do you think about using a file on the TT to reduce its diameter slightly? This should allow the metal drivers to contact the rail better, but still provide some adhesion from the TT. I visualize putting the loco upside down in a maintenance foam Vee and powering it up near 12 Volts. Then carefully applying a micro-file to the TTs, taking off about 1/1000 inch at a time. Any thoughts?????
Well, I received my PRR and undecorated today. Both run on some of the worst trackwork around here. No cars yet, I am just going around the track at 30 on the MRC dial. So far, so good. BUT- Different contact system than the Pacifics and Mikados. The sprung wiper is a thing of the past with MP, apparently. BUT- I can't believe they still have a rapido on the tender.
Hytec, I thought about doing what you propose but in retrospect I'm glad I removed the tires entirely. I needed better electrical contact, and more metal wheel surface is exposed when the tires are removed. I just pulled 8 50 ft. weighted milk cars and a combine on the level, and that is more than the prototype needed to pull on the Addison Branch, so I'm just about in perfect shape. The groove on the driver doesn't seem to catch on my Peco turnouts, and I don't have derailments. The loco now creeps through turnouts without stalling. That said, the loco should have come with all wheel tender pickup. It has turned out to be a fine addition to my roster. Hopefully your B&M version will provide faithful duty on the Peterboro Branch for you, and look great doing it. We don't have those handsome graphite smokeboxes on the Rutland Moguls, just on mainline passenger power like the Pacifics and Mountains.
Bob- I don't know. I didn't have my American long enough to look, or if I looked, I don't remember. It went back to the dealer PDQ.
Bob, The contact system on the mogul appears to be similar to that of the eight-wheeler. The tender contacts are the same as the one that MP has used from the time that they issued the first re-do of the USRA light pacifics: wipers on the axles. The locomotive contacts on the eight-wheeler and mogul appear to be similar. The eight-wheeler has one bronze wiper to a side that contacts each driver on that side. As the mogul has an additional axle, there are two bronze wipers to a side, which means that the middle driver has a an extra contact. This does not help the overall pick-up, though. I suspect that the sprung wipers to which Fotheringill refers are the first issues of the USRA light pacific, which had springs on one axle of each tender truck. What it appears that MP has been trying to do is cut corners to keep down the price. We keep telling them that we will pay, if it operates well. Also, we point to Kato, MDC/Athearn and B-mann, who utilise up-to-date construction methods. We purchase their offerings and find the prices reasonable. If you will take a butcher's at the Atlas Board, a gentleman who goes by the name of PARADISE [some number, I forget now], has been in contact with the Tagers. It appears that they have been reading our comments. They are planning to re-issue the eight-wheeler with an all wheels live tender and traction tyres. They will then re-issue the mogul with an all wheels live tneder while retaining the traction tyres. Finally, they plan to issue a retro-fit kit for an all-wheels-live tender for owners of first runs who wish to update them. One thing that should be noted is that MP promised the moguls in July. They showed up in August. Not bad; better than more than one manufacturer. Based on my success with the mogul, I am in the process of affixing a B-mann SPECTRUM USRA Standard tender to a MP eight-wheeler. The paint is drying, then I will letter and wire it and see what it does. I suspect that the pulling power will improve, as the B-mann lacks the contact wipers that create drag for the locomotive. Stay tuned for more.................................................
Phil: I read that letter . When I was in regular contact with Jon Tager some years ago, he promised an easy traction tire retro-fit for the MP Pacific and later the 2-8-2 Mikado and look at the nightmarish traction tire option that resulted. I've since given up on any contact with the Tagers. Since the JJJ&E is run by DCC, simply hooking up a Spectrum tender to the loco doesn't suffice. The decoder is placed in the MP as all the wiring is in place for an easy decoder installation. That's the only easy option MP ever designed for their steamers. All that wiring must be transferred to the Spectrum tender. It can be done without too many issues but it isn't as straight forward as with DC. I can live with the wiper system if it's the same as the 4-4-0. At least the wipers won't snag on foam when you take it out of the box. Then you spend 2-3 hours trying to bend a wiper back in position. This usually happens on the right front driver of the 4-6-2's and 2-8-2's. I might buy one and see what happens. Where did you hook the Spectrum drawbar to in the 2-6-0? and 4-4-0? Stay cool and run steam....
