Recently here in the Philadelphia area there have been several stories about suspicious surveillance of trains. As a railfan the following articles are something I don’t like to see. Things like these just add to the paranoia. I saw the news piece from the local ABC affiliate last night on TV and they were sensationalizing the story. First one is from the local ABC affiliate news http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/052004_nw_trainprobe.html Second one is from Time Magazine: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040524-638410,00.html When I rail fanned on a regular basis I was known by many of the trains crews and a few of the police officers. Now when I go I usually have the kids with me. Since I am certified as an Amtrak contractor I carry an Amtrak contractor ID and on the back of it is Amtrak Police phone number. I also carry a cell phone and I will report any suspicious activity I see. I do need to get Norfolk Southern and CSX’s Police numbers and carry them with me. In my opinion the rail fans can be a good thing for the railroads. We are out there because we like trains. We don’t want to see anything bad happen to them. We can act as another set of eyes and ears for the folks that are charged with secure the railroads. As such there are rules and a code of conduct that must be followed. I stay off of private property. I do my railfaning from public areas or areas that railfans use on a frequent basis. I don’t try to hide the fact that I am out there. I wave to the crews and acknowledge and respect them. As of yet I have not been approached by security personnel, but I am sure it will happen some time down the road.
You make a good point, Tom. Railfans can, and should be, an added security aid for the railroads. There are some railroad employees who recognize this already, but they are a minority and do not necessarily represent corporate policy.
Part of Homeland Security does ask everyone to be aware of what is going on around. As Railfans we should be looking out for the best interest of the Railroad as well as not be surprised if approached by others as they to are only looking out for whats best too. Excellent Post!!!!!!! A few years back I did a Photo Survey of the existing D&H Depots and at this was approached about why I was taking pictures and once I explained my reasons they help with some information. This was before 9/11 and I would think those people would still do the same and maybe more depending on where you were at now.
First off, it's good to see this topic (which I posted earlier in another spot on TB) get discussed properly. Second, I too feel we could be an asset to safety. I bring this example out as Exhibit A (not to toot my own horn, but as one example I ran across in trainchasing): Back in the summer of 1980, I was busy trying to shoot as many Frisco trains as I could before the November merger with BN. It was a hot, dry summer in northeastern Oklahoma, and it hadn't rained for quite some time. As I was setting up along the Cherokee Sub east of Afton, the headlights of a westbound came into view. As I shot pics of the power (which, BTW, was a KCS detour freight, with white SD40-2s and stainless stell caboose on the rear), I noticed smoke rising from a spot up the line. WHen the caboose rolled by, I gave the signal for hotbox, but the train didn't stop, Ths smoke was starting to grow, which meant a grass fire had started. I jumped back into my truck & raced back to Afton (literally) to report the fire (which took some time given the attitude of the Barney Fife wannabe acting as town marshall). He finally got it through his thick skull I was reporting a fire, and hit the alarm for the volunteer fire department. It was a grass fire, but fortunately not much was lost to this one. And that's just for a simple grass fire that may or may not had been started by that train, and before the age of cell phones. [ 21. May 2004, 22:49: Message edited by: Colonel ]
Bob- Whether rules require it, or not, a lot of newer "railroaders" don't know the hand signals. If not contacted via radio, or cell phone, communication with them is very difficult. Boxcab E50
In one of the articles that I read on this topic, it was printed that Amtrak crews found an "infrared device" on one of it's tracks which would be capable of transmitting data. What do you suppose this was? Russ
You mean this story? http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/052004_nw_trainprobe.html Got the URL from Railspot, a Yahoo group- was posted in its entirety there, but I posted the URL here it's a free link. [ 21. May 2004, 22:49: Message edited by: Colonel ]
That's the article Bob, thanks for posting the link. That is pretty scary stuff. I look at this situation like this though.... The USA has the most expansive rail system in the world, many parts go through desolate areas. There is absolutely no way that the entire rail network can be protected at any one time. Fortunately, railfans have the ability to span this gap as we often find ourselves in the very desolate locals that need attention. Happy railroading! Russ
I agree with Frisco. The railfan could be more help than you my expect. the fact that they are there with a camera could deter someone just by that fact. Also with all the pics being taken, some protective discoveries could be made. If no one is around it is easier for someone to be clandecent
Congratulations everybody, I've just read the previous posts and commend everybody for there thoughtfulness. We sure need to be aware of the increased scrutiny of everyone trackside. As a Conductor in passenger service I have to admit that I am getting a bit "jumpy" these days about work. I just remind all passengers that we all have to become more aware. We are told to be aware and watch for unusual people. Heck, half the people on our trains are pretty strange! Just realize that to the average person or law enforcement person the activities of the railfan community are a bit hard to understand. The compilation of information like arrivals and departures and equipment numbers can arouse suspicion. I guess we all have to realize that we are at war and we have to respect that. I would like to hear from railfans that have recollections of railfanning during WW II. What kind of suspicions did they face? Take care and let's hope we never have an incident similar to Madrid.
As a Rail Employee here in Australia we also have heightened security and we are always looking for any unusual activities along the rail corridor. I firmly believe rail fans can reduce the risk by their railfanning activities. It is sad to think we are in a state of heightened risk of random attacks but rather than hit panic stations and increased awareness and vigilance may be enough to prevent an attack.
I worked for the B&M during the summer in 1943 and 44. They relaxed the rules and let 16 year olds work due to the manpower shortage. It was great to make that much money as a high school student. The only thing I remember about security was the bridge guards at the larger bridges. I believe they were either private security or state guard. I don't remember any railfans or many people taking photos. There were a lot of troop trains and a few trains with German prisioners.
When I first started out in '42 we "kids" could get jobs in the roundhouse, mostly as "Go-Fers" (go git this or go git that quick!). Cameras were already forbidden. Later in '43 & '44 we would occasionally see someone taking photos as we passed by them, but they looked like news paper reporters. Anyone seen fooling around any of the switches, or trying to climb on equipment, were either warned off or shot at by the Army guards. During the War, they didn't leave their post too far. If you didn't "Halt", they shot and asked questions later. By '46 boys as young as 10 were running along the catwalks of strings of box cars, but never when in motion. The most trouble we had was the kids walking home after school would sometimes pull the bleed valve handle and release the car brakes air tank. A few cars did roll off aways, but none got far enough to foul a switch.
Obviously, railfanning in the post-9/11 world has changed, and the events in Madrid didn't help our lot at all. Best thing to do is follow this: </font> Stay off railroad property, period. If you don't have a release, or are a guest of the railroad, keep the heck off.</font> Shoot your pictures on public property, in areas where you won't impede traffic or otherwise cause a safety hazard</font> If you 're not sure you're supposed to be there, then leave.</font> When confronted by railroad employees or police, be polite. Copping an attitude does not, repeat DOES NOT work, so leave the lame First Amendment argument at home.</font> ALWAYS carry identification, and if asked to show it by law enforcement or railroad police, do so. Again, lose the attitude. It ain't a bad idea to have several railroad-oriented magazines in the vehicle.</font> If told by RR officials or law enforcement to leave, do so. Period. No attitude, just go. It may not hurt to ask them if there's a better place to shoot.</font> Be friendly- wave at the train crews.</font> Follow the old Boy Scout rule about being in the outdoors- take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. In other words, take your trash with you.</font> OK, maybe not a be-all, end-all list, but IMHO, good advice- I'm passing it on from other sources. "But wait", someone will ask, "what if the cop gives me attitude?" Well, I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not going there, but if you've been polite, if you haven't copped an attitude or cussed the guy out, you're OK. If you're verbally abused (IOW, cussed at), get a badge number & report the guy. Just remember- there is NO railroad shot in the world worth a ticket. Stay safe out there.
Great advice friscobob! The story about the inferred motion detector just gets better and better. It is strange how SEPTA and the FBI seemingly place a low priority on the matter but the local media keeps trying to sensationalize the story. I hate local TV sweeps time. Also note the last paragraph about the Amtrak photo contest. I guess some of that suspicious activities that the media was talking about may have been people trying their luck at the Amtrak sponsored contest. http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/052204_nw_railprobe.html
The media hysteria reminds me of that Don Henley tune "Dirty Laundry", which is his ode to modern-day dreck journalism. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.
Excellent advice by all! BlueBelly, If you have ever found yourself on the NYC subway, you know just how suspicious some folk really do look! The police have a tough job, we shouldn't make it worse. FriscoBob, Some real sound advice. These are rules that I have ALWAYS followed, not just in light of these times. I have never been rudely evicted or even questioned. I think that everyone should follow these rules. As Watash would probably say : " You can catch more flies with honey than with manure!" Happy railroading! Russ
Just when you thought it couldn't get any better. The device left on the SEPTA tracks was placed by an employee who likes to sleep on the job. He used the device to warn himself when a supervisor came by. Here is the link to the story: http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/52404-motiondetector.html
Oh brother! You've got to be kidding! I hope they'll have the guts to take some action against that loser. He's cost numerous agencies a bunch of money! No. Wait. Promote him! Boxcab E50
